I don't know about the threesome, but I will talk to the oral and anal sex. My wife only understands them as physcial acts, that I just want them because they would feel great. Of course they would feel great. Hot monkey sex is great. But as a man, I can also see it this way, her wanting me to do these acts to her means she has to be COMPLETELY comfortable and trusting in me, that she wants to REWARD me for being a good husband to her. So as you can see, sex carries a huge amount of emotional baggage. It is the emotional stuff that makes sex into making love. Hot monket sex is sex, but ML is going to the DEEPEST levels of intimacy in the mind. Obviously, so women can not get there because of their own imposed barriers.
I am just wondering, why are we asking the HD men to change their LL?
Again you are not listening NO ONE asks you to change your LL.
Everyone says to see the love they are giving in the WRONG LL.
Yeah and if your wife was hear talking to us saying that she keeps doing AOS and wasn't getting a response from you, we would tell her to learn YOUR LL. But she's not here and you ARE.
Why are us guys being expected to give up our own LL, and go to some LL that is FAR less fulfilling.
You are not expected to give up your LL. You are expected to understand that your wife has a different LL. And eventually she is to learn your LL also.
Is it not the responsibility of BOTH spouses to speak the others LL.
DING DING DING. And the unfortunate thing here is that usually one person has to make the first step. And it truly sucks for you that since you are the one here you are the one who has to make the first step. I am not saying it's fair it just is what it is. Of course you could always refuse to make the first step and stay in the exact same place for another 4 years.
I just get the feeling that people are essentially giving LD women a pass on this one, that they believe that LD women can't really learn to speak the LL physical touch.
Nope don't believe that any more than I believe that you can't learn to speak AOS or WOA or whatever your wife's LL is.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I don't think my wife is lesbian, but she could be asexual, or close to it. From what I understand though, many lesbians are asexual, they are in it for the companionship and not the sex.
Shmagic The reason the term frigid p*****s me off so much is that it was a term frequently used if I refused to have sex with various BF in the past. I was also told by more than one guy that I must be a lesbian because I chose not to have sex with them. These were not long term BF's maybe one or two dates and yet they felt they were entitled to have sex with me and being turned down gave them the right to label me as frigid. That is WHY the use of this word hacks me off so much.
Shmagic, those guys had no right to call you that or anything. I imagine/think, that they just wanted something from you. What Cemar and some other guys have is a different situation. He wants something “with his W.” Not to far from what I want with BB, but realize BB has her limitations as what she can give and that her preferences are different than mine.
The difference between your dating situation and Cemar's is he does not want sex on a first or second date. It’s a lot different being M, doing it every day maybe, then 20 years later it is down to 6X a year.
Frigid, maybe a derogatory term. No/very low desire, is a better term but there isn't too much difference when it comes to the outcome. Little or no interest in sexual activities or things.
Cemar is talking about being wanted, wishing his W wanted the same thing as much as the acts them self.
Terms have different meanings and acceptances over long periods of time. I remember when frigid was almost always used to describe what is called low or no desire. The other terms (low/no desire) were not in us at the time.
I remember when everyone used the term "retarded" if a kid was a very slow learner. Then it was a mental handicap. After that it was mentally challenged, then kids with special needs, and not too long ago it was alternative learning style or something. How about "no child left behind?"
So, what is a good term to use instead of frigid, considering the couple is M and the lower drive person just sort of shows up and wants to get it over with? BTW, I am on your side, thinking “frigid” is the wrong term to use.
Some newer terms: Inhibited sexual desire (ISD); Sexual aversion; Sexual apathy; Hypoactive sexual desire Female Sexual Arousal Disorder' (FSAD).
Fearless DING DING DING. And the unfortunate thing here is that usually one person has to make the first step. And it truly sucks for you that since you are the one here you are the one who has to make the first step. I am not saying it's fair it just is what it is. Of course you could always refuse to make the first step and stay in the exact same place for another 4 years. Good beginning, the first step.
What happens in reality, the person that is here takes the first step, takes the first step over and over again. The SO thinks they don't have the resources to follow in the persons “first step” footprints or thinks that is not what they want so they drag their feet and balk.
They don't get it. They won't read any books. They are almost not interested beyond the point of doing the minimum, until the HD person radically changes the R, or is ready to end the R.
Ending the R almost happened to CDM34. It is happening to Choc (with other things thrown in) right now.
GEL talked about no more anniversaries unless something changed. Mr. Mojo was OK with a separation/D till Mojo started dating.
Sorry Fearless. I like reading your posts. They have a lot of wisdom. I think the "firs step" works for some couples, but too few for many of us that have been here a long time.
Now if you are saying Cemar needs to take some steps, rather than complaining, I agree with you.
…is just the PC way of saying fridgid. I know Cemar, but if it offends someone you don't make any progress with that person.
Shmagic and others, are really good people from what I see. Work with them, rather than get stuck with a different opinion about a word. I want to find some solutions or be told there aren't any solutions.
The big problem with you and other posters is you want the whole pie. Posters are saying what are you willing to do to go from 1/4 of a pie to acquire the next slice so you have 3/8 of the pie.
In my situation I don't expect more than 1/2 of the pie to be available. That is why I say you wanting the whole pie is OK, but you will always want. If you know you could have half of a sour cherry pie (not your favorite) why insist on a whole blueberry pie (your favorite) or get pie crumbs and be unhappy.
The advice people imply is take what your W has and improve on it a little. Life isn't a full ride.
BB doesn't have much to give in the way of hot sex if compared to Mojo and I don't think she would ever be hot like she was ever again.
I think your W has more potential than BB because she is younger, but to want everything and some how expect it, sorry. That is like more unsweetened lemon juice. Some how you have to make lemonade out of what you "DO" have.
It has taken you a long time to really open up here about your feelings. I've only been visiting the SSM since the beginning of this year and have learned and understood so much about both the mistakes I've made in my own marriage and the way to change them.
DIY has helped by his honesty and desires show me that ML is as much about the emotional connection for the man as the physical act itself. Despite everything he's not bitter hurt maybe but at least he's trying seems you've just given up.
Just as an aside words HURT even years later and conjure up bad memories. Thats why I hate the word frigid so much. Hate the word slut too but could start an entire thread on that one. Anyway back to the point.
When your wife said she was sorry she was so physical with you when you were first married did you actually tell her that was one of the things you most loved about being with her? Or did you ignore the remark and just let her think it didn't matter?
Cemar you are basically one of the "good guys" you haven't cheated ....yet... and deep down know you want to stay an improve your life and LL with your W so why keep fighting with everyone here to prove YOU'RE RIGHT and we are all wrong?
Why keep harping on about desire being so vital from your wife when you know without doing anything to change the dynamics of your present situation you are going to be here 6 yrs from now?
To be honest unless you try to change what on earth is the point of waiting 6 years to D your W? If anything it destroys older kids more than when they are young. They see what they thought of as a secure long term marriage as a sham. Suppose you do stay with your W eventually divorce have realy hot sex withsomeone new and get M again and it all turns to rat sh**. Suppose your new W changes you are back to square oneso why not try to work with what you@ve got? At least try nothing to lose everything to gain.
Please don't come back with but Deido says or blah blah blah says just friggin do something.
Look right now I'm so tired I'm off to bed and fingers crossed might get to ML with my H in the morning dpepending on how he feels LOL. No BJ's no anal sex just really connecting together.
One reason (and there are many) that divorce does not seem like a better option is because, to be blunt, how many 45-50 year old women that are divorced are real HD women. It is really hard to learn which women are HD and which women are FAKING it. The chemicals produced in the newness stag can actually make women into something they are not. I have already seen it with my first wife. So how can a person find a TRUE HD women. And at that age, how do I know that it will last. So I am not sure the grass is any greener on the other side of the fence.
If you want your wife to be honest with you when you sit her down to have a heart to heart, you are going to have to be honest with her, and before you can do that you need to be honest with yourself (isn't there something in the Bible about that?) Your statement sounds so much like a veiled projection to me. Rather than use the excuse that you think there are a lack of women out there who have high desire (which I think is untrue), maybe the truth is that you are scared to find out if there are such women, because you are afraid to leave the security of your marriage, as bad as it may be? So who is holding you back from taking action, the scarcity of HD women or your own fears?
