If you took a little more time and took care of your own needs, you wouldn't need some mind reader hanging around trying to figure out what Cemar wants at this exact second!
OK, please explain to me how I can meet my own needs. Just start with my list from earlier this week.
OK, please explain to me how I can meet my own needs. Just start with my list from earlier this week.
Cemar, people have been trying to tell you this very thing. But it seems that if you can't have it all right now, then it's not good enough. Think about all the things you've learned since you were a child. Did you go to bed one night still in diapers and wake up an accountant? Things take time Cemar. Have you ever heard the saying 'when the student is ready, the teacher will appear'? You can hear the same thing over and over but you won't get it until you're ready. We're all waiting for that moment for you, in the sincerest way.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
I am not asking for the whole list. That list is part of my needs. Fearless says to meet my own needs. All I am asking is for is 1 need that I can meet (from my list) on my own.
How about you start off with just a simple little step this weekend. Sit your wife down and tell her what you want, but keep it in check. Don't get into the whole wish list for BJs, etc. Just tell her you want to ML a little more often and a little more enthusiastically.
For any of this to make sense to her, explain why you want that, what it means to you, and what it means when you don't get that from her. Be honest and tell her how much pain you are in and your intentions of leaving the marriage after your son is a little older. Lay it on the line without worry how she will take it. Just be totally honest and give her the chance to met your needs and fail on her own account, if she does fail, rather than assuming she will fail and not saying anything.
This would be a good start, without having to get into any cage rattling. It would be a gentle kick-off to start the ball rolling. Do you think you can do this very specific thing?
1) To be best friends. 2) To do things together. 3) For each of us to be the MOST important people in each others lives. 4) To kiss my wife good morning, and good night, with kissing during the day as well. 5) French kissing, can't have a good marriage without it, my wife does not like it. 5) Sex almost everyday. 6) For her to physically want me. 7) For her to be sexually adventureous and confident. 8) For both of us to be in better shape. 9) For her to be flirtations. 10)For her to be affectionate. 11)To sleep naked with her EVERY night. 12)To take showers with her. 13)For her to LOVE sex. 14)For her to be like other HD women (or what she ONCE was). 15) To be able to share our deepest intimacies in and out of bed. 16) For her to actually NEED sex from me. (Horny. like the old days). 17) For her to LOVE giving oral sex as much as I do. 18) TO go on weekends away that include LOTS of physical connection between us. 19) For her to LOVE her own body and sexuality.
Is this the list you're referring to?
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
MJ said: "I really do enjoy giving blow-jobs but I don't think I give them to prove that I care about somebody either. I give them because I enjoy the sensual pleasure myself and because I enjoy the ego gratification that I get when I am affirmed in my belief that I give great head."
Cemar replied: "THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANT. Every LD women needs to read these 2 sentences. In these 2 sentences, you show that you 1) Have sexual confidence, 2) have enthusiasim for sexaul things, 2) you TAKE sex from the man. You have the HD personality, which is the freaking GOAL! This is an ENTHUSIASTIC PARTNER, and that is what I want.
I don't want sex to be FOR me. I don't want sex GIVEN to me. I want her to TAKE sex from me because she gets pleasure from GIVING pleasure. THIS IS PASSION!!! THIS IS REAL DESIRE!"
Cemar, maybe I'm misunderstanding ... but I think you're in danger of comparing apples and oranges here. There are two models at work in this example, as I see it.
1. What we might call the "MJ Model": A woman who gets off on giving blowjobs because she enjoys the sensual and erotic aspects, how it feels to her, AND enjoys the feeling of power that comes from being able to bestow mind-numbing pleasure on another human being.
2. The Generous Lover: a partner who doesn't particularly crave fellatio in and of itself, but knows how much it means to their lover, and thus generously and enthusiastically performs the act ... yes, out of love. This is *also* a way of "getting pleasure from giving pleasure".
Now, I'm excluding "3. The Sexual Martyr: a partner that does it, but with palpable reluctance and/or distaste .... or as a "favor" or the result of a bargain. I could not agree more that "pity sex" is no fun for anyone.
But as long as a blow job (or any sexual act) is done willingly and generously, with humour and affection ... how "into it" your partner is shouldn't be a deal breaker. I totally get (having been in your shoes, sort of) that ravenous lust is the ideal .... but isn't a prerequisite for a good sexual experience.
Otherwise, aren't you just inferring that you aren't worthy of your mate's unselfish act? That in order to feel comfortable with "taking pleasure", she *has* to be passionately desirous of it too? Haven't you ever done anything for her (in or out of the bedroom) that you didn't care all that much about with a smile on your face -- just because she loves it? How would you feel if she rejected that as "not good enough" just because you weren't loving it? If you're perfectly willing to go for Thai occasionally even though it's not your favorite, wouldn't you be crushed if she said, "No, because you don't really like it, so I don't want to either". Isn't that the ultimate passive-aggressive guilt trip of all time?
Marriage -- all parts of marriage -- are, like it or not, about compromise. She should get her way sometimes, you should get your way sometimes, and it has to be ok if you aren't both "two thumbs up" on everything.
This is, of course, assuming your wife IS willing to compromise with a cheerful spirit.
It just disturbs me that your words seem to indicate that you will *only* be *truly* happy in bed if she turns back into the wild woman you remember. I wish you will find that, but to set the bar so high seems ... overly idealistic ... at this point.
Here's some more food for thought. I started out as Type 2, and became Type 1 as I gained familiarity and proficiency. Doubt I'm alone on that.
Therefore, having too rigid a model of what motivations are are "acceptable" or "desirable" to you in a lover seems pretty self-defeating, to me.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Here's some more food for thought. I started out as Type 2, and became Type 1 as I gained familiarity and proficiency. Doubt I'm alone on that.
Excellent point. I would say the same was true for me except due to the fact I was precocious sexually (in much the same way that I was a precocious reader and not unrelated) I reached that point at age 16 when the Hispanic boy with whom I was having an "everything but" beach fling let out a long loud exclamation in Spanish when he came. When I asked him what he said, he told me that it was something like "Jesus Christ, I must take you home to meet my grandmother." I found that very validating and encouraging and also quite hilarious. I had my friends at the HD girl's lunch table shooting milk out their noses with that one.
I think the same can be said of most things people do or attempt. That is why I often make the analogy of sex being like swimming or dancing. People can develop the same kinds of fears or self-conscious behaviors regarding sex that they develop with these activities. I have to admit that one thing that I really hated about being in a SSM was that sex as an activity is something that I know that I'm really good at because I enjoy it so much, just like somebody might be a strong, natural swimmer, and I really missed the opportunity to simply do something I revel in more often.
It might be the case that one of the "truer" things that my 2bx ever said regarding our sex life was that he was jealous of the fact that I enjoyed sex more than him. Also, on one of the occasions he tried to hit on me after we split he,unbelievably, said that the sex was always great. I actually agreed with him. We did almost always at least attain the level of "hot monkey". It's really unfortunate all the ways things can go wrong in a sexual relationship.
Last edited by MJontheMend; 07/27/0709:52 PM.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Kettricken Those are good descriptions of 3 different main models.
Some people are in another model, a #4 modifier. They have medical/psychological/medication issues.
Some of the type 4's want to be similar to the #2 model and want to, but can't or can't very often. Some are in the #3 group and don't want to or won't do it very often.
I did read your posts and was glad to hear things are better for you and your H. What steps or events helped you. I see you opened up to your H. Anything else that worked for you?
