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Very simple reason, they mean a heck of a lot more when we DON"T have to ask... Sure we can ask for things from our spouse, but the immediately devalues what we ask them to do for us. When they meet our needs before we ask, that is worth FAR more.

Total Bullsh@t. I think that people that value not having to ask for things are living in LaLa land. You know what? If you took a little more time and took care of your own needs, you wouldn't need some mind reader hanging around trying to figure out what Cemar wants at this exact second!

Oh also another theory of mine about people that like to have their minds read. The mind readers are usually internally unhappy and looking for others to make them happy. Mind reading is a convenient excuse for never being happy with your partner. You never say what you want out loud so your partner pretty much has no chance of ever hitting the mark perfectly so it is always THEIR fault you are unhappy.

In your example (I haven't seen the movie but I have heard about it), maybe jennifer's character is just uncertain about how vince feels for her and how she feels for him. In that case if Jennifer had directly asked Vince to clean up the apartment then she got home and it was clean, how would she react? She might still be unhappy BECAUSE OF INTERNAL ISSUES so better not to ask him to clean the apartment to leave the possibility that she might be happy if HE just does what she needs him to.




But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
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I did see the movie and the name of it was BREAKUP or something like that. Hmmmmm.


"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."

- Nathaniel Hawthorne

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Originally Posted By: fearless
By the way I noticed your signature and forgot to ask Who Dey??

Romeo Crennel is the head coach of the Cleveland Browns. And a poet from the Yogi Berra school. I think it's got the Serenity Prayer beat hands down.

SM


"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment."
Henry David Thoreau
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Romeo Crennel is the head coach of the Cleveland Browns.

Yeah I know. ;\) I am a Bengals fan and Raven is a Raven's fan (go figure.)

ETA: We have to be careful because Mojo isn't a sports fan and she might kick us off her thread!!

Last edited by fearless; 07/27/07 01:09 PM.



But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
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Quote:
ETA: We have to be careful because Mojo isn't a sports fan and she might kick us off her thread!!


Well, I don't like sports and I don't much like beer but I do like gambling and layered chip dips so I'll let you guys hang.


"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
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Quote:
In your example (I haven't seen the movie but I have heard about it), maybe jennifer's character is just uncertain about how vince feels for her and how she feels for him. In that case if Jennifer had directly asked Vince to clean up the apartment then she got home and it was clean, how would she react? She might still be unhappy BECAUSE OF INTERNAL ISSUES so better not to ask him to clean the apartment to leave the possibility that she might be happy if HE just does what she needs him to.


Excellent point. Let's say Jennifer's uncertainty about Vince's affection is equivalent to her uncertainty about whether her new jeans make her *ss look fat. Her uncertainty drives her need for validation. If she were more confident about Vince's affection or how hot her *ss looked in her new jeans she would be okay without validation and actually better at accepting or recognizing affirmation. She might be annoyed because the apartment is messy but she wouldn't see it as a sign of not caring. Of course, we can never be certain about another person's affection for us or their opinion of the hotness of our appearance no matter what they do or say. Therefore, the best we can do is whatever is necessary to convince ourselves that we are worthy of affection or in possession of a hot *ss. Once we do that, we can luxuriate in any affirmation that comes our way.

I guess this whole concept is crystal clear to me at the moment because I was so seriously in need of validation of my sexual attractiveness a few months ago. Not too long ago, I sat across a restaurant table from a man and was absolutely unable to believe that he found me sexually attractive even when he lobbed blatant sexual innuendo my way. The thing I've come to realize is that if we look for validation from others on anything, it's like we're always seeing ourselves in some sort of fun house mirror based on another's life experience or inherent temperament and preferences. When we are able to give ourselves affirmative messages, we no longer need the external validation and we open ourselves up to greater connection with others when we can accept their individual preferences that might conflict with our own as well as those that are affirming.


"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
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Raven and I have talked a lot about this over the last 2 years. The thing is if I feel great about how I look whether he mentions I am beautiful or not does not affect how I feel at that moment. Of course it's great to hear him say it but my feelings are NOT dependent on it. For all I know he's thinking it and doesn't realize he hasn't said it out loud or maybe he's thinking about an accident that happened at work or his kid's dr. appt. Whatever, I don't want my feelings to be dependent on someone else who has a full enough life of their own.

And vice versa. If I am having a "fat" or "ugly" day (which occasionally happen :)), then having raven say I am beautiful does not "make" me suddenly feel beautiful. It is nice to hear and all and I won't argue with him (I'm not that stupid!!)but I still won't magically FEEL beautiful. And that is just fine with me. By now I know that fat and ugly days come and go. KWIM?

Also he realizes that he does not have to be responsible for my down days. Sure he does try to be nice but he doesn't take it personally if his niceness doesn't "make it all better."




But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
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IMO, not asking for something but expecting your partner to read your mind and somehow know to do it is just cowardice. Having to ask means making yourself vulnerable because the other person now has the option of invalidating your request or the very fact that you have the audacity to make such a request. So not asking is a defensive ploy. Then, becoming upset that your partner did not read your mind is to turn the blame that should be on you and placing it on your partner. Not fair at all.

BUT…with the Jennifer Aniston example, what she wants is the validation of knowing that Vince is thinking of her while she is gone. Nothing wrong with that IMO. The thing is that she should make it known up front that such actions by him are what she wants. Once she makes this “contract” with him (and thus has made herself vulnerable) and he agrees with that “contract,” then I think it is reasonable for her to get upset if he doesn’t clean up. But still, there is no mind reading.


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Quote:
The thing I've come to realize is that if we look for validation from others on anything, it's like we're always seeing ourselves in some sort of fun house mirror based on another's life experience or inherent temperament and preferences. When we are able to give ourselves affirmative messages, we no longer need the external validation and we open ourselves up to greater connection with others when we can accept their individual preferences that might conflict with our own as well as those that are affirming.


MJ, this statement encapsulates what I have been slowly coming to believe recently and wraps it up with a nice little bow. When you depend on external validation, anyone who disagrees with you or disapproves of your beliefs or actions becomes a threat to your sense of self. Not not not healthy. And that mental posture limits you so sadly in terms of being open to learning and growing.

Thank you for capturing this so well.

Why couldn't I have learned this in my 20's????


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Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
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MjontheMend:

I really do enjoy giving blow-jobs but I don't think I give them to prove that I care about somebody either. I give them because I enjoy the sensual pleasure myself and because I enjoy the ego gratification that I get when I am affirmed in my belief that I give great head.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANT. Every LD women needs to read these 2 sentences. In these 2 sentences, you show that you 1) Have sexual confidence, 2) have enthusiasim for sexaul things, 2) you TAKE sex from the man. You have the HD personality, which is the freaking GOAL! This is an ENTHUSIASTIC PARTNER, and that is what I want.

I don't want sex to be FOR me. I don't want sex GIVEN to me. I want her to TAKE sex from me because she gets pleasure from GIVING pleasure. THIS IS PASSION!!! THIS IS REAL DESIRE!

Last edited by cemar2; 07/27/07 07:52 PM.
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