Don't know if that theme is right Lou as I tend to clean a lot but am HD
However, the reason I clean a lot is along the same lines as CeMar's wife. I was thrown into "adulthood" at a very young age. By the time I was 8½ years old I was taking care of 3 of my 4 younger siblings (aged 4, 3 and 1 at that time - the younger one came along a year later, then there were 4 to take care of) No matter what I did, it was never good enough for my mother. To this day I am sure a lot of what I do is to "prove" myself
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I bet my wife can relate. I wonder sometimes when my children came along, she reverted back to when she was raising her siblings, that she was back in a familiar role that she seems to like, and that is raising children. I felt as if I almost disappeared from her life as soon as the children came. My function in the house was to help her raise the children. She completely changed as a person when the first child was born. She was HD up till then. She had a child, she was more stressed, she gained weight and can not lose it, she got a hypoactive thyroid (which definitely does not help). All about the same time. That was 17 years ago, and my marriage has never been much good since then. It was like she was in her comfort zone, being MOM.
Then she tells me ALL of the things that she has done during the day, almost fishing for compliments. Then she tells me ALL of the things that she has done during the day, almost fishing for compliments.And then she expects me to appreciate all she has done. I don't freaking CARE if the house is clean, or if the bathrooms are clean, DOMESTIC life when my life is devoid of physical intimacy. It's like "See how much I did today, aren't I a good wife". She is focusing all of her efforts on the WRONG stuff, and actually exhausting herself doing it. Why do women DO THIS! Who is telling women that this is the IMPORTANT stuff in marriage? I swear she does this to impress OTHER WOMEN, it certainly is not for me.
CeMar, how many clues do you need to point you in the right direction of what YOU need to be doing to get to the place you want to be? What you just wrote SCREAMS two of her love languages...and you are phoo phooing them, because they aren't yours. "Then she tells me ALL of the things that she has done during the day, almost fishing for compliments." She's looking for you to validate her efforts with "WOA's" words of affirmation (is this so hard?). "Then she tells me ALL of the things that she has done during the day, almost fishing for compliments." Here's another clue CeMar...AOS's, Acts of Service, another of HER love languages that you aren't acknowledging. While it's true it may not mean a whit to YOU that she's done this...if YOU disregard her attempts to please and be a good wife....then you are devaluing her. If it's important to her to keep a clean house for YOU and her family, validate her attempts man! Compliment her on it...again, is this so hard to do? It doesn't matter that it's not important to YOU that she does these things. Validate her.
"And then she expects me to appreciate all she has done. I don't freaking CARE if the house is clean, or if the bathrooms are clean, DOMESTIC life when my life is devoid of physical intimacy." Validating her efforts in this aspect would stand you in a much more positive place for her WANTING to be intimate with you...but phoo phooing all of this will make her feel devalued by you, and that will achieve the exact opposite of what you want.
If you refuse to speak her languages to her or make it seem like her wanting to be validated for things that aren't important to you (but are important to her)...I don't think you stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting her to speak yours to you....and in that, you have no one but yourself to blame.
Oh, and who tells women that this is important stuff in a marriage....society does. Home Economics in school does, magazines do, tv shows do, our parents who raise us do...would you like me to go on?
The thing that strikes me is that it is probably the case that if Mrs. Cemar had some outspoken HD female friends it might be very helpful. I think part of the reason that women in "MOM" mode let sexuality fall to a low priority is that nobody knows whether you have a hot sex life or not. Someone who grew up in MrsCemar's situation would almost certainly be highly concerned with maintaining a certain status quo socially. My mother was definitely a dysfunctional housekeeper but she was also a highly intelligent, fairly arrogant woman who would wander into the room when my friends came over and observed the mess to my sometimes embarrassment and wave her hand and say something like "Please forgive the state of the house, I've been engaged in other matters." Therefore, I came to learn that it s*cks to live in a messy house but you shouldn't give a f*ck what other people think about what your house looks like.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
HW Don't know if that theme is right Lou as I tend to clean a lot but am HD I question how you can be truly HD when you said there has been no or little sex for the past 3~5 years. Higher Drive than your H, yes, I see that. Normal drive given the right circumstances? Yes! But I don’t really know so should not give too much of an opinion..
I don't consider myself HD; it's just that BB is much lower drive. But that might just be semantics.
My long-term preference would be 2~3X a week. Maybe more than 2x a week now because 1X a month feels like crumbs.
However, the reason I clean a lot is along the same lines as CeMar's wife. I was thrown into "adulthood" at a very young age. I can see that 100% HW.
No matter what I did, it was never good enough for my mother. ((((HW)))) It was good enough HW. In reality it was 1,000X better than most kids your age.
Sorry you were not appreciated back then when you did the good deeds for your sibs. Sorry your mother didn’t appreciate it but you know how much good you did for the ones in your care. I can visualize the benefits to your sibling’s lives.
Do any of your siblings acknowledge some of what you did for them?
My stepfather was angry a lot and said things like I should be out on my own at 16. He left home at ~14. He was never as dysfunctional as your mother.
I moved in with my 18 yr older brother's family to escape the anger at home. I took care of his kids and they remember some of the things I did for them and they are in their late 40s.
Your situation at home has similarities to Mojo's. Mojo mothered her sister.
To this day I am sure a lot of what I do is to "prove" myself I guess I proved myself by working, learning all I could, given the circumstances, and earning $$.
Don't we all have something to prove if we possess a sense of responsibility and drive? Some types of proving can be harmful. Other types of proving are validating and build a sense of self-worth and contribute to our individual and collective growth. I am think about the Olympics, Tour De’France, hockey, even quilting or making a good burger.
One of my thoughts, when I said they clean a lot? was the thoughts that if something needed cleaning, took away from connecting with a mate/sexy thoughts.
Some guys say, when they work hard, they think ML is a treat, a reward to look forward to later in the day.
Some women say they are tired and ML is one of the last things on their list.
Aside from the gender stereotype, what is different? You have the same tiredness but two different reactions. It was along those lines, that I was thinking that the lower drive spouse, that the thought of something needed cleaning diminished their SD. BTW this was a problem with some LDHs of HDW posting on this forum. The H wanted a cleaner house before sex.
How many of us would absolutely melt if our wives were visibly impressed with something we had done well? How many of us would be deeply hurt if our wives didn't notice or care about something we had gone to a lot of effort to do well? How many of us would find it hard to be close to our wives if they saw our greatest skills, strengths, and achievements as irrelevant, not worth noticing, useless, a waste of time, and so on. How would we feel if they pointed to our greatest achievement and said "who cares? You should have been doing XYZ instead, you lazy good-for-nothing!"?
This woman was nine years old when she was left to her own devices, refused to be a helpless, useless baby in the midst of it, and stepped up and took care of business, and acquired a high level of skill, patience, and strength that she takes pride and pleasure in using and showing off to this day. And now she lives with a man who flat out doesn't care about any of it, isn't interested in her skills, her struggle, or her achievements. After four years on this board, he finally mentions her struggle and her challenge, and speaks of her with pity about her effort and her achievement at a time when most people her age were still helpless, messy, irresponsible, petulant, lazy, useless babies.
Originally Posted By: cemar2
And exactly how does speaking WOA to a 47 year old women in menopause give here a sex drive? That seems like a pretty huge leap of faith.
It'll give her the idea that you give a damn about her, who she is, and what she's capable of.
Last edited by Crazy Eddie; 07/26/0706:21 PM.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
And exactly how does speaking WOA to a 47 year old women in menopause give here a sex drive? That seems like a pretty huge leap of faith.
That's not why you do it, Cemar. You do it simply because you feel it's the right thing to do. Now, if you DON'T feel that way, don't do it, because she will sense your insincerity. But if you DO feel that it's the right thing to do, then do it, without looking for something in return.
BTW this was a problem with some LDHs of HDW posting on this forum. The H wanted a cleaner house before sex.
I tend to think that this is just one of the convenient places for anyone to place anxiety. My 2bx would frequently vacuum the bedroom before initiating sex. I'm quite surprised that I haven't developed a Pavlovian reaction to the sound. Maybe a LD person would really be feeling anxiety about the laundry not being done and that is what would block their desire but maybe the anxiety experienced in anticipation of sex would just be readily assigned to the laundry. After we split, my 2bx made it clear in one convo that he didn't find my tendency to perform AOS in pursuit of sex very arousing - lol . I think speaking somebody's LL makes them feel loved so clearly you should try to do it in a relationship but making someone feel loved doesn't necessarily make them feel more sexual. My triple layer lasagne and shiny bathroom faucets will not be featured in any upcoming amateur porn movies.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
My triple layer lasagne and shiny bathroom faucets will not be featured in any upcoming amateur porn movies Aw shucks. I was hoping to see what size soup can you used in your shower instead of a proper showerhead.
I have a Campbell's tomato soup can with 12 holes I punched in the bottom of the can, using an eight penny nail and a short piece of wire coat hanger holding the can to the pipe.
BTW, what is that McDonalds cheeseburger wrapper doing under the Lasagna dish on the table in your last picture?
