Ok Lou, so life isn't perfect and you didn't get what you bargained for - what's the solution?
You can either wallow in your self pity for the rest of your life (not saying that you are) OR you can make the best of it and live life to the fullest - because you obviously don't want to D BB for a number of reasons.
Personally, I adore my dogs, but I don't think I would go to the extreme that BB is going to - web cameras in the kennels?? pleeeeeezzzzz. Eventually dogs die (sorry, but that's life, or lack thereof) what is she going to do then? I would hope you won't agree to her getting more of the little suckers. What is it about animals that she throws her whole being into them? Is it an escape because the children are now gone. Some people just replace children that leave the nest with animals - avoiding the real problems that are still there (their M)
We have two VERY LARGE dogs and, like I said, we both adore them BUT there is a limit and we have talked about when they are "gone" and whether or not to get another one/two. H is already planning on it but I am trying to discourage him from thinking about it right now. I would like at least some time (a year or two minimum) to think about the impact it will have on our lives. After all, when you get a dog, you can expect at least 10 years of your life to be tied up (much more if they are smaller dogs) - not to mention the expense.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
because you obviously don't want to D BB for a number of reasons It’s not that I won’t, just can’t/don’t see the low conflict, the pets, and her pickiness as bonified reasons for a clear-cut reasons for a D.
Also, like many on the forum, I think there are ways to improve things “IF.” I am still looking for some “IF’s.”
Personally, I adore my dogs, I don’t dislike BB’s dogs. I actually like them and spoil them some. It’s the fact they come before other things and people many times.
Eventually dogs die (sorry, but that's life, or lack thereof) what is she going to do then? I would hope you won't agree to her getting more of the little suckers LOL, more dogs were in her plan for the last 15 years. She even subscribes to the idea that any man that put himself before a dog, well the man goes.
BB had 13 pets. It took almost 7 years to get that number down to 7. Now she said maybe 2 or 4 pets will be about right. One of her friends was going to cancel a trip to Washing DC because he didn’t want to leave his 1 cat with at a kennel. BB said she understood and feels the same way sometimes.
H is already planning on it but I am trying to discourage him from thinking about it right now. would like at least some time (a year or two minimum) U2? Same here, just switch H for W in your post.
BB even talks about some day if we need to move to a retirement living building, she wants a dog.
not to mention the expense Yup, Over $300 last month for the pack and just spent $180 for “doggie joint care” pills that will last 6 months for the one 7yr old dog, and mini surgery next month for a lump that is on one of her twin Scotties. The other twin has a toenail fungus and $100 meds to treat that condition. Then there are the special treats so the dogs take their pills.
For me....it's because I have experienced some of his vulnerability, I've experienced what it CAN be like when he lets his walls down...I KNOW what's waiting there for us just beyond that last brick.
He's my best friend He's an AWESOME father When we met I could see how injured he was on the inside too and how much pain he carried/carries around...and well, I'm a nurterer.
I know where you are coming from GEL - to some degree I think when the ST asked me if I wanted to "rescue" him, he might have seen something I didn't. I don't think I did it consciously, but deep down, that's just the way I am. I think I have the NG syndrome too
I have always been very nurturing - my H says it, my kids say it, my friends say it, so it must be true. I don't really see it as being any different from how people should all be, its "just me". I don't think of it being a sacrifice or being a martyr. I do it because I like doing it, I NEVER begrudge any of what I do for people, I don't keep score, I don't ever expect anything in return. So, is this detrimental? I don't know
I loved my H from almost the first time I met him. Did I want to marry him right off? No, but I did want him to be a part of my life. We developed a real friendship like no other I had ever had. He is truly my best friend. Do I want to sacrifice that?
I see what a wonderful step-father he has been to my two daughters - they ADORE him and would be devastated beyond belief if they knew what he had done to their mother.
Maybe, there was a part of me that wanted to help him fix things. I believe everyone comes into our lives for a reason. The more time we spend together, the more I believe it was meant to be
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
Lucky me - I get to die on New Year's Eve 2043 (sure hope I'm having sex when that happens - LOL)
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
Well if that is the way you want to go, maybe I will take back my comment about you not being HD. I guess I was wondering how a HD person can go so long w/o having sex and feeling close to someone. I get to feeling weird after a couple of weeks of no sex and no kissy-face,no hand holding, no back and foot rubs, no spooning, and no skin to skin time.
New Year's Eve 2043 WOW, 2043. I guess I need to eat more vegies and lose a couple of pounds. At least you go on a memerable date. Me on Sat Sept 3, no one goint to remember that day. Not even me.
I never smoked/drank but entered other data that suggested poor lifestyle, just because I worked too much in the past.
It might be labour day weekend - that would be memorable
Quote:
I guess I was wondering how a HD person can go so long w/o having sex and feeling close to someone. I get to feeling weird after a couple of weeks of no sex and no kissy-face,no hand holding, no back and foot rubs, no spooning, and no skin to skin time.
I never said I didn't miss any of those things OR that I felt close to H either. I guess I have just learned to separate a lot of my emotion/feelings (*sigh*) but hoping to get it back eventually - especially the "kissy-face", I sure do miss that A LOT!!!
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
I never said I didn't miss any of those things OR that I felt close to H either. I know you never said you didn’t miss those things and I do remember a little about you two touching each other
I guess I have just learned to separate a lot of my emotion/feelings :sigh: but hoping to get it back eventually I hope you can get back most of the things you miss.
Separating feelings and events. A difficult task sometimes often without a clear goal, but it has to be done occasionally.
"kissy-face", I sure do miss that A LOT!!! Yup.
In my case, some of Cemars list would be nice. Well 75% of it would.
What I had in mind was asking you, why some of the affections stopped? Why no sex for several years.
I know in my case, BB and I had 75% of Cemars list when we got M. The first child didn’t slow us down much. Not even the second child.
When we decided to build the house we are in, in 1974 then things changed a little. I had to work more, I also worked on the house as it was being built. BB didn't like out tempoary apaerment we lived in when we sold the old house to finance this house.
Once in this house, it took more money to keep everything going. New this, new that. We were spending too much money. BB was a SAHM.
I took on more part-time work. One of the bigger mistakes in general, in my life, and that led to some distance in the R.
shortly after we moved in, BB found religion partly because she bored. There were some personal issues introduced to the R from the church that caused more distance between BB and me.
The church activities cut into our personal time together and I added to my work load because I did things that needed to be done at/for the church, and I wanted to be like the other good church families and financially support the church so took on more paying jobs.
In 1981 there was a downturn in the economy. I worked as an auto mechanic for a car dealership which resulted in about a 20% drop in my commissioned based paycheck. I took a part time job at a used car lot to make up the difference and also repaired cars at home. I worked too much and developed back problems.
I had my back surgery. I tried other things before the surgery for 3 months, like hard surface/floor rest, worked in the parts dept and service writer. I slept on the floor because it was the only place I could get to sleep. Nothing worked. I had the surgery and was in the hospital for 10 days.
After surgery, I was off work for 26 weeks. No rides in the car for 12 weeks. Tried sex a couple of times before and after surgery and hurt all over for 2~3 days, spent another 2~3 days not feeling good. BB lost interest in the romantic/sex dept and switched to FIB instead of lover/wife. I didn't know that at the time.
In 1986, more back problems which led me to a career change and to college. I spent tons of time on homework. BB went back to nursing school, also with tons of home work. It was kind of sink or swim for both of us. One kid in high school, one in college with me.
When college/nursing school was over, we both worked 3rd shift on different days. BB worked at a psychiatric facility where they had a 28 day co-dependency program. She was the med nurse and did some work with the clients as a facilitator. That is when the attitude “men are pigs” started to appear.
Before 1981 I say we had sex 2X a week. BB said it was 2X a month. I often remember trying to get something going. I remember BB being tired most of the time and going to bed early. I stayed up late to work on cars, to pay bills and be a good church member. I don’t advise anyone over do it like I did.
After I healed well enough, after the back surgery, I tried to keep our frequency to 3X a month. BB didn’t resist at first, but as time went on, she resisted more and more.
About 5 years ago is when she told me she lost her sexual desire in 1981. She lost the desire to experience sexual gratification of any kind for herself.
Several years ago, I got used to the idea of gift sex. I gave as much to BB as I could in return for her gift to me, but eventually the gift sex turned into, lets get it over with, lets give it up for the summer, for other parts of the year, and lets give it up because she was feeling too old for that sort of thing.
In your case, I can see where some kind of “accident” going to college, changing careers might place one or both partners in a frame of mind that is best described as “busy now, maybe later” spoken or unspoken. Once in the OK i will let it slide, it goes on for too long.
Those are two issues (accident, studying/school) and I realize the As didn’t help. I wondered if and how those three things, and/or something else pushed you and Mr. HW out of the lover’s nest.
I can see how the events in our life pushed or caused BB to withdraw from our lovers nest.
Maybe there are some ideas for ST topics for you in your history with Mr. HW. FWIW.
Lou - yes, accident (4 years ago) was a BIG factor in our SSM but it was happening well before that time, the accident was just the straw ... you know the rest
I don't think there was any one thing that was the culprit in our R falling to pieces, it was a number of things. Before the accident I would have to say the primary "thing" was H working, much to hard, much to long, much too much
He ALWAYS has identified himself with who is is as a "worker". Most of his work life he has been self-employed, so there is even more pressure. When we moved up north in 1994, things were okay but starting to slip. We never should have moved there. It was a "return" for him (having lived there in his younger years for 19 years) and a first time for me. I dreaded pretty much the whole 9 years we were there. He got into a business venture (bought the transportation company he was working for when we originally moved there - much to my chagrin) As much as it did ok, his partner went sideways on him and we ended up in a legal matter we weren't ready for. Thank goodness he had an ironclad shareholders agreement. He bought the partner out but it caused tremendous stress for almost two years because he took 3 other employees with him (opened his own transportation company in competition) and in the first year, our company lost $200,000 on one run alone. It was not good.
I was taking my paralegal course at that time and had my own worries to take care of. That is when the first A happened, when H was deep into his first really deep bout of depression. We made it through that mess and decided to sell the business and leave town. We knew we would eventually anyway because there was no where for me to move up once I had finished my course - it was just sooner than later. We lost money on the house but sold the business before it did too.
We moved to an area that is called the Okanagan (it is primarily orchards/vineyards, wineries and tourism that keeps it going). It was better than where we were but it had its own problems we weren't aware of before we moved there. H was never happy there totally, I managed. One week to the day of arriving there is when we had the accident. It was downhill from there. Because it is a tourist place, everyone wants to live there so employers take advantage and pay much less than anywhere else in the province (employees like to call it the sunshine tax - a penalty basically for living there). Wages were pitiful and H couldn't get a job. I had already been offered two before we moved, because of my qualifications. Needless to say, that didn't exactly boost H's ego (he never said anything and was proud of what I had accomplished but it didn't help matters). Once I had got over the majority of my injuries from the accident, I was left with pain in my shoulder, neck and a constant headache (increasing quite frequently to migraines). I have had one consistent headache since the date of the accident (July 12/03) but have learned to manage it so I am functionable.
H was out of work for almost a year (feeling the pressure more and more of not having work and his wife having to pull the whole financial load) He finally got work for a fraction of what he was being paid before and it was a horrible place to work. But, work was scarce and beggars can't be chosers in his eyes. This place abused their workers something awful, and he voiced his opinions about their work ethics - wrong move on his part. He got fired. Now, as much as it was a wrongful dismissal and he had a wife that knew he would win in a court siruation, it did add to the problems we already had. We commenced a lawsuit and won but it wasn't until we had already moved here that they finally settled out of court. So he constantly had that on his mind, and dwelled on it daily.
In the meantime, he went into another deep depression and that is when the second A happened (ST has confirmed depression is the most common thing men that have As have in common).
We had already talked about leaving that place and moving to where we are now (we had lived here before, had family and friends here and felt it was best to return)
That time he hit rock bottom, he wanted to leave right then and there (middle of the night) and come here. He said he would live with his friend, etc. etc. But the thought of him leaving in that state of mind was frightening to say the least. I took away his keys and after 5 hours, convinced him to come with me to the emergency ward where he saw a male psych nurse and a psychiatrist. He was already on AD but they doubled the dose and within a couple of days, he was coming out of it. He remained in a state of flux and numb for many months afterwards.
It was not until we moved here at the end of July 2006 that things really started to turn around. However, also during that the first 5 months, he continued to go see the OW every Monday (his day off) while telling me he was looking for work (a 3 hour drive each way) He insists, right until this day, that there was nothing physical as of about April or May of last year, it was all emotional by that point, although he continued to give her fairly large sums of money
It has taken him almost that full year to return to what I would consider "normal" for him, but the damage that has been done to me/us and our R, in the meantime will take much longer to repair (if it ever can be totally).
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
