She fills her schedule with an incredible number of things, loves to be very busy. Then she tells me ALL of the things that she has done during the day, almost fishing for compliments. She seems to think that she is doing this for US. So she just expended all of her energy for the day doing things that really don't matter to me, they matter to HER. And then she expects me to appreciate all she has done. I don't freaking CARE if the house is clean, or if the bathrooms are clean, DOMESTIC life when my life is devoid of physical intimacy. It's like "See how much I did today, aren't I a good wife". She is focusing all of her efforts on the WRONG stuff, and actually exhausting herself doing it. Why do women DO THIS! Who is telling women that this is the IMPORTANT stuff in marriage? I swear she does this to impress OTHER WOMEN, it certainly is not for me.
Interesting comments and I completely understand your point and your frustration. However what you just wrote again seems to answer my question with YES. What you seem to MEAN is that you are so resentful about not getting what you want from her that you cannot appreciate anything else she does. True?
I can understand your points that the HD person may have caused the LD. But the LD is still determines if the marriage succeeds.
So if the HD person caused the LDness in their spouse, the LD still determines if the marriage succeeds??? The marriage is already in trouble and the lack of sex is merely a symptom of the main issue. Again an extreme example but if a husband starts hitting his wife and then she stops wanting to have sex with him are you REALLY saying it is her fault for not wanting to have sex with him and it's her fault if the marriage ends???
Please please don't take this as blaming the HD spouse. This is about acknowledging that BOTH spouses contribute to the state of the marriage which then contributes to physical intimacy.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
My wife essentially had to run the household at the age of 9. Often the mother was gone for several days. My wife had to raise her siblings. THe house was a mess, they often slept on sheets the dogs had peed on. Often my wife had to call realatives to bring food over when there was no food in the house. My wife has scars on her body from childhood falls that should have been stiched up, but the mom never took her to get fixed up.
OMIGOD Cemar. Well no wonder keeping a neat and clean house and being a good mom are important to your wife!! I am sorry that she has the relationship issues she does but I am impressed at how well she has taken care of herself given what she grew up with.
Then she tells me ALL of the things that she has done during the day, almost fishing for compliments. She seems to think that she is doing this for US. So she just expended all of her energy for the day doing things that really don't matter to me, they matter to HER. And then she expects me to appreciate all she has done. I don't freaking CARE if the house is clean, or if the bathrooms are clean, DOMESTIC life when my life is devoid of physical intimacy. It's like "See how much I did today, aren't I a good wife". She is focusing all of her efforts on the WRONG stuff, and actually exhausting herself doing it. Why do women DO THIS! Who is telling women that this is the IMPORTANT stuff in marriage? I swear she does this to impress OTHER WOMEN, it certainly is not for me.
Yeah she is fishing for compliments because she is proud of herself and would like to know that you recognize her. And good for her to do things that matter to HER. Now expecting you to appreciate them is a bit much because it is her value not yours to have a clean house. I will say it is pretty clear that keeping a clean house in her case shows how far she has come and how different she is than her mom.
By the way, how much do you help out with the house? Would getting a maid service be a help to your wife? If keeping a clean house is a priority for her, why not HELP her with her priority rather than criticize her for it????
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I'd expect the maid idea to go over like a lead balloon. She's proud of keeping up the house. She doesn't want someone else to do it... she wants the love of her life to be proud of her and impressed with her proficiency.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
I'd expect the maid idea to go over like a lead balloon. She's proud of keeping up the house. She doesn't want someone else to do it...
Yeah, may not work. With her background she may get a double sense of pride - that she is willing and able to work hard (unlike her parents) and that she can keep a clean house (unlike her parents).
she wants the love of her life to be proud of her and impressed with her proficiency.
Wow, I hadn't even thought of it that way. How disappointing it must feel to have your husband not appreciate or care about something you are good at. My friend's XH was like that about her scrapbooking/card-making hobby. Sure I don't understand the hobby either but she loves it and is good at it. What's so hard about appreciating her talent even if you don't love it yourself???
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I would say along the same vein that CeMar trying to help TOO much might also backfire, if she places a lot of mental stock in her ability to keep a clean house. My ILs are this way. MIL goes ape-shiat every time someone is going to come over for a visit. If FIL tries to directly help, he gets screamed at. He has learned that he just has to be around and available at a second's notice to help when MIL needs it. I'm not saying MrsCemar is that way, but she may have a little of that shame-based OCD (as my C called it) my MIL has.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Thanks for filling us in on your wife’s background. I‘ve been waiting to hear this for a long time and have suspected something like this in her past. First I want to say that you should stop beating yourself up over why your wife is distant from you. Sure, you have things to work on, but her problems run deep. Also, don’t be so hard on your wife either. Try to envision yourself growing up in her shoes. That sort of childhood was a living hell. I know others have had it worse, but hers is not a pretty picture.
If she was forced into the adult role and felt like she was tasked with getting the family through from one day to the next, just imagine how overwhelming that can be to a kid. An adult can simply throw in the towel and run, which is what some MLCers are doing, IMO. But a child does not have that option. Your wife was trapped with now way out and very few ways to set things right. Seriously, imagine how overwhelming and depressing that can be! So what is the only thing a kid can do? Withdraw, go into a shell, try to find a safe zone mentally. If your suspicions are true that she may have been sexually assaulted, that doesn’t her present day reactions to intimacy make a whole lot of sense?
She is not rejecting you per se. She is just living life the only way she has ever known. My very strong advice to you is to find a way, whatever you decide that may be, to get her into counseling and work through these issues that are holding back your marriage. It makes sense now why she is resistant to counseling. In fact I believe that EVERYONE who resists counseling so strongly has the same magnitude of FOO issues they would rather avoid.
CeMar, this has nothing to do with you, your appeal to her, or her level of sex drive. What she needs is loads of compassion and understanding from you, to create such a secure environment for her that she feels safe enough to come out of her defensive system and learn to feel emotion again. Your situation is VERY similar to my wife’s. Pushing only for more sex and intimacy will just feel like she is reliving the assaults she had to endure in her past. It is no wonder you have not advanced any at all. She will only strengthen her defenses, so the harder you push the worse your situation becomes.
I really don't think in Cemar's case his helping or not helping is significant. I think Crazy Eddie got it right that Cemar just recognizing and complimenting her hard work would be worth a lot more. HE does not have to claim a clean house as a value. he just has to appreciate that she works hard.
My goodness I cannot even imagine the childhood she had. And it felt like Cemar is just "ho hum she spends way too much time with cleaning" without seeing that it is her way of feeling she has improved herself beyond her mother!! How is she going to feel intimate with him when he dismisses her priority and pride in a clean house with "I don't freaking CARE if the house is clean, or if the bathrooms are clean,"
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Cemar, therwe was more information in this post than almost any other by you. It is good to see something different than "I want or I/you can't be happy unless X happens."
I still think she has the "who wants to want" problem I can relate to that.
I also suspect cemar is quite mistaken about how much he cares about the state of the house. If we're not cleaning it, it is really easy to tacitly assume that the house pretty much cleans itself. It's also easy to underestimate just how unpleasant it is to live in a dirty or messy house. Imagine being hungry and finding every plate and spoon in the house is dirty and must be cleaned before you can eat. Imagine being tired and finding all the sheets dirty and smelly. Imagine being surrounded by mess and clutter wherever you walk, and having to kick it out of the way or step around it. Imagine opening the refrigerator and smelling rotten food and trying to forget that smell when you eat one of the few edible items you found. Imagine plates and bowls with stuck-on food that never quite comes off and trying to ignore it while you eat off of it. Imagine using a toilet or a bathtub or a shower that hasn't been cleaned in months or years, touching the nasty thing with your bare skin. If you haven't been in a poorly kept house in a while, it's hard to appreciate just how much nicer a clean and well-kept house is to live in.
Really get into your mind just how bad it could be, the state of squalor that your wife saw with her own eyes and combatted with her own hands, and continues to protect you from every single day because she loves you and because she's good at it. Then show her how much you appreciate her efforts. She was able to do this at the age of nine, when most kids have to be screamed at to pick up their own clothes... she's proud of it, and she wants you to be impressed as well.
Last edited by Crazy Eddie; 07/26/0704:02 PM.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
she wants the love of her life to be proud of her and impressed with her proficiency.
Keep this in perspective of her past. Again, this is very much like my wife. Kids who re “parentified” still need love and affection, but when the parents abandon the role, what is the child to do? They step up, become responsible, rescue the parent, and then get the praise, love and attention they want and need. So CeMar’s wife, like mine, has learned to get her feeling of being loved from doing things that get her admiration. CeMar’s wife volunteers to do more and more things which she hopes will get her more and more love. The problem of course is that other people will not and cannot give the love she is seeking, only CeMar can. But she does not know this, no matter how much CeMar tries to tell her. She may intellectually understand it, but the feeling just doesn’t register. So she continues to go about her business in the only way she has ever known.
