Separated from WAW

[dlt1]

Hello, this is my first attempt at posting. Have read DB (over and over) and been viewing some posts here. I'm 32, married only 1.5 yrs. My WAW (30) and i have been distant for awhile. I can shoulder most of the fault, as i have been living life like a single guy w/ a girlfriend instead of a W. She encouraged my freedom, but i started taking it and her for granted. She had mentioned unhappiness several times, but i would withdraw and hope things would just workout. She suggested C a few weeks ago, and i laughed in her face at the thought! What did i expect to happen? After a weekend together with friends, I was mad for silly reasons, so just kept quiet and avoided talking to her to avoid a fight. (I always avoid a fight). Next day tried to talk as i was calm, but she clearly was avoiding me like never before. I pressed her that evening, asking if she loved me. She said, "sometimes" and left the room. I pursued and pressed some more. She said she wanted a D she was not in love with me anymore!!
I was crushed, begged and pleaded. She did not budge, i cried (first time she ever saw me like that). Next day i convinced her to agree to a 30 day separation. I moved out the following weekend. That was last Sunday. We spoke on phone Wed night, she was very distant. I tried to keep it light and listen to her, but could only get two word responses. Ended up on our feelings, and her lack of feelings for me. I also began C on my own, now she will not go. Says she does not see how that would change her feelings. I am meeting with her this afternoon. Hoping to do something together, and will have dinner. My goal is to ask her about her weekend, she was seeing friends. Not to press the R. Read the 5 Languages of Love book, and left it for her with a note while i was home briefly to take care of a few things. Wondering if she read it, and if i should give her DB? There are so many parts that nail one or both of us right on the head.
Other thing I'm wondering is the 180. Do i 180 from where i was after she dropped the D, or 180 from how i acted leading up to it? I'm afraid if i 180 from after, i will be distant, which lead up to it. But, if i press the issue, I'm afraid I'll push her away more, and reenforce her ideas that L is gone. Hopefully i hear back from some of you beforehand. Will post again tonight or tomorrow with results of our 'date.'
Thanks!

[Atlas]

dlt1,

sorry to hear about your sitch. don't give her db to read, you will need that in your back pocket and if she knows what your doing, it won't work. as for the 180, i have read and reread that section. i have come down to the perspective that i 180 from the man that was part of sending this into a downward spiral. so for me, i was distant, withdrawn, angry, drunk everything bad prior to the bomb. work drove me nuts and home was basically a place to escape from life. so for me it is not being that man that was there prior to the bomb. now i'm open, cheerful, calm, enjoying life and things i do.

but that is not to say, if your doing one 180 and nothing is working, try a diffrent 180. think of the example with the h that always complains about his project and the w tries to offer advice. then one day she pounds her fist and starts yelling about the boss and not at her h. h is set back and has to think why is acting like this, oh its because of my prior behavior.

just keep db'ing and hand in there, if she wanted c'ing just a few weeks ago and now nothing, i don't think everything is lost.

[dlt1]

Thanks Atlas.
Well, met for dinner, brought some flowers for teh kitchen table which she appreciated. Kept it light during dinner, just asked her about her weekend, really focused on listening as much as possible. We were even laughing a few times. I generally felt she was trying, but had a sadness in her tone. She knocked me down when i was talking about the car and she asked if that was in both our names or just one. I kept my cool and let it slide off. She also mentioned plans she has made during what was to be our next trip together. They are flexible, so that will be my positive spin. Only 6 weeks away, so I accept that may be too soon to expect so much.
I suggested going for a walk, or getting ice cream, but she was not interested. Asked about taking the dogs for a walk (something i always refused to do unless absolutely neccesary), but she did not feel like it. As we're driving home she said I could come in for a beer, just one b/c she had to work early. As soon as we sat down she asked what I thought/felt about the R. I laid out the com probs, my 'seeing the light' explained how i focused on the work part of tasks/projects instead of the reward of doing them with her. Tried to give her my emotions, which seems to be my 180 for now. Asked her the same, she said she does not love me like she thinks she should love her H. How's that for double edged? Better than not loving me, but still not there. She keeps saying I'm a good guy and she does not want to hurt me. I said I'll be hurt if it does not work out, but she needs to focus on her and not worry about me right now. She also said she sucks at R's in general. We really had a good talk (if you can call it that), she believes in the fairy tale. It was hard not to disocunt that right away! But, I repeated what she said so she knew I heard her. Then suggested my own fairy tale that I see happening if we really reconnect. Let it go at that.
I felt like all thsi talking was getting me farther from her, while having a sense of closeness. I asked her to go to C again, and she agreed! Not with me, but will see the C on her own at first, then perhaps do some sessions together and others apart. I think this is more than i hoped for. I told her I appreciated this, and we will talk tonight about the schedule.
I really think a C will help her, and hopefully that will lead us back together. She is so distant and sad. She seems to want it to work, but just beleives it's too late, the love is gone. I'm scared at losing her. My actions did get positiv results, so think I'm on right track.
Atlas, read your thread and it does sound like we're in similar boats. Keep it positive one day at a time.
Thanks,

[Brandon Kirk]

I would not have left the house. Yes, you want to practice the rules of Divorce Busting, but you want her to SEE you practicing them. You want her to see you getting a life, hobby, doing your 180. Now she'll only talk to you on the phone and see you once in a while. If I were you, I would repectfully get back to the house. Sleep in another room and tell her that you'll respect her space.
I wouldn't have called it a "seperation". Whatever you do, don't you mention divorce. Take things slowly. Very slowly.

[Willing NJ H]

DLT1 I am also in a similar sitch.

Thanks Atlas.
she said she does not love me like she thinks she should love her H. How's that for double edged? Better than not loving me, but still not there. She keeps saying I'm a good guy and she does not want to hurt me. I said I'll be hurt if it does not work out, but she needs to focus on her and not worry about me right now. She also said she sucks at R's in general. We really had a good talk (if you can call it that), she believes in the fairy tale. It was hard not to disocunt that right away!,

I didn't type it, but my W said exactly the same things. I did a 180 from where I was before the bomb was dropped, and it's been helping a lot. She has come to me a few times since I've been DBing, and given me positive feedback. My W feels that she's no good at relationships, she now wants a fairy tale R (like in a novel) but thinks it will come with no hard work or much compromise.

Give her the space that she wants, but make the most of the time when your around her. Let her see the changes, but don't push or pursue her.

With situations like walking the dogs and such, if she doesn't want to go, go without her. If you ask her to go and she refuses, you not taking them makes it look like your just doing things she wants you to do. If you just go over and take the dogs for walks without even asking her to go, she will see it as a change as long as you keep it up.

As far as DBing, I leave the book where ever I was last reading it (but we're are separated and in the same house.) She has mentioned that she looked at it once or twice, but isn't willing to read it right now. I haven't asked her to read it, but told her (one time) that it contains things that can really help us if she's ever willing, and left it at that. The few things she has read in the book have opened her mind a bit, and it hasn't hurt us.

The thing thats helps me most is reading posts of more experienced DBers. NOMOPO is very inspirational, and GINA is a WAW who feels a lot like our wives. Good luck, and keep posting.

[dlt1]

Thanks guys, it really helps to hear from others. I hate the idea of being separated, but it was the only thing I could do at the time. It's very difficult to give her space, but I have been able to so far. Stopped by the house Monday to give her something for C and grabbed a few items. Asked how her day was, and then got out of there. Coudl tell she was uncomfortable with me there. Her C was last night, she had asked me to come by and feed the dogs b/c she thought she may be late from work and would have to go straight to C. So I was able to hang out at the house and do a few things, fix a shelf and burn some branches we cut down earlier this month. She ended up coming home first as I was catching a breather and reading over the "languages' book I had given her. We both laughed b/c I was a sweaty mess just standing there in the middle of the kitchen. Didn't feel like she was as annoyed. I got my things together and said "have a good time!" regarding C. Which, of course, sounds stupid now. he gave me a very strabnge look, so I said it's not that bad, I'm sure she'll be fine. That came out a bit better! Anyway, C was 7:30 and she was to schedule the follow up (both to go to that one). I texted her at 10 asking what she thought and thanks for going. Have not heard back. Another day of waiting and hope she calls tonight. I want to call, but fighting the urge to pressue and pursue.
I really hope the next C directs us to work on things together. I'm very frustrated being apart, chaging things in my life, but she does not see them. When we are talking, should I talk about my changes? Seems like that is not the right away, she needs to see action, but can't b/c we're apart. Ugh!
We are supposed to have another 'date' Friday, my suggestion at the end of Sunday. I'm thinking of dinner at thsi restaurant on the lake that she likes. Not sure if that is too romantic? Would also like to go to movie, but that's a long time of no talk or action. Any other ideas that garner positive responses?
Thanks again for the responses, I hope to contribute more as I go through this, with a good story at the end!

[Willing NJ H]

DLT1,

To answer the question you left on my blog, no. I don't believe in setting dates for deadlines. I feel that it will put too much pressure on the WAS, and force them to make a decision that you don't want. Other DBers have reinforced this, because when they have tried to force decisions or set deadlines, they got the answer they didn't want.

Some suggestions on your last post:

C was 7:30 and she was to schedule the follow up (both to go to that one). I texted her at 10 asking what she thought and thanks for going. Have not heard back. Another day of waiting and hope she calls tonight. I want to call, but fighting the urge to pressue and pursue.

It's great that she's willing to see the C (mine is not.) Is the C a solutions based C? Anyway, it would be a good idea to leave her alone about her sessions with the C. Don't text her, call her, etc. Let her have space, and let her come to you if she wants to. The more you contact her, she's going to feel like your being pushy and controling. This will push her farther away, and will defeat any progress you make. Keep fighting the urge to call or to pressure, good job. No matter what you do, don't brake the DBing "rules" if you will. "Act as if", by acting as if your life is fine and you are happy with yourself. I'm not saying to bounce around in front of her, making her think your happier without her, but don't be an emotional wreck that's chasing her like a helpless puppy. Work on getting a life that doesn't involve her and will improve you. Exercise, make contact with friends and relatives that you've been neglecting, etc. My friends were able to tell me ways that I acted poorly, but they never told me about because they thought it was ok with my W. Don't do the things that caused probelms in your R the same as you did before, but don't become a hobbit that sits and waits for her to come to you either.

I really hope the next C directs us to work on things together. I'm very frustrated being apart, chaging things in my life, but she does not see them. When we are talking, should I talk about my changes? Seems like that is not the right away, she needs to see action, but can't b/c we're apart. Ugh!

It's good to keep your hopes alive, but be very patient! We are all very frustrated, sad, mad, etc. Everyone on here is running a marathon of emotions, the key is to keep her from seeing it. Don't let her see you break down! Act like a confident, content and humble man with her around. When you get down the road, home, wherever she can't see; cry, have a fit, whatever. Don't be a mess in front of her. Many DBers have asked me, are you attractive to her right now? Would you be attracted to someone if they were a blubbering and whining mess, who felt sorry for themselves and kept nagging you?

Don't worry about talking about your changes right now. Actions sepak louder than words. If you read posts by people like GINA, you'll see that the WAS isn't going to believe your changes right away, even when they are seeing them. They may think the changes won't last and wait to see. Make your changes for you, and she'll see them when you do interact. Don't forget, you not pressuring her and allowing her space is a change. It shows her that you care enough to respect her wants, and is a start to a new beginning. My personl rule, is do not initiate any coversations that are about our R and don't say things that could cause pressure. There are DBers on here who having been DBing for several years. They live in separate houses and are divorced, but some of them have even recovered from those situations. The rule of thumb (from what i've been hearing from very experienced DBers), is that this can easily take at least one month for every year of your relationship. It's not set in stone, but this isn't until after you start really DBing, and is if you don't casue/have any set-backs. Remember, DBing isn't a 100% that it will fix your M. It is intended to ensure that you know you did everything you could to fix it. If your M doesn't make it, you'll be more secure with yourself and it will be easier to move on. (We all hope that is not the case, but this is a long process and we all forget that; especilly me!)

We are supposed to have another 'date' Friday, my suggestion at the end of Sunday. I'm thinking of dinner at this restaurant on the lake that she likes. Not sure if that is too romantic? Would also like to go to movie, but that's a long time of no talk or action.

Be very careful with the dates. Don't ask for them right now, let her make this call. As far as the one you have planned, play it by ear and see how it goes. Let her call the shots, and do a lot of listening. Don't bring up your R, talk about lighter things that won't bring up emotion or discomfort. Don't do anyhting romantic like bringing flowers or a gift. Treat it as dinner with a friend for now, and just have a good time. If things seem uncomfotrable or drawn out, or if she doesn't suggest doing something else, be the one who calls it a night. Don't just dangle by a thread until she cuts you lose, let her know you had a good time and politely go on about your way. Again, you have to play it by ear, but don't do anything that could cause pressure. If your about to say something and feel that you probably shouldn't, DON'T! Use what you've learned on here, and don't let your emotions get the best of you.

You getting the idea of this, but you really need to read the success stories and posts from other DBers. It will keep you from making the same mistakes as others, and give you advice from other WAS's. The other plus to it, is that when you posts on other people's blogs, they tend to read your blog and give you advice. Good luck, and keep your head up.

[Willing NJ H]

DLT1,
Just read one of NOMOPO's threads, and he suggested the following link. PRESERVE has outlined Dbing perfectly, and answers most of the questions that you, and all of us, have asked.
Read it, and follow it to the letter every single day.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=692727&Board=9&page=0

[dlt1]

Willing,
I keep questioning a lot of the DB stuff, so hearing you guys re-affirm it really helps keep on track. W just called to let me know the C wants to continue seeing us separately for now. I though that might happen, but was hoping for one together to set common goals or something. (OK probably just me wanting to have more contact with W). It is what it is.
Don't have the quote thing figured out just yet, bear with me!
As for the Friday date, I had sensed an uneasiness when I asked her. So, when she called I asked if she was still up for it. She said since we saw each other (briefly) the last 2 days, she rather not. She suggested Sunday again. I moved for a zoo trip, but she said she hadn;t planned on an all day thing. I dropped it and said I'd just talk to her early afternoon and we could go from there. Last Sunday I did keep it light and she was the one to bring R talk after dinner. Will definitely do the same. Problem: I'm finding just how far we drifted b/c it's harder to talk, or get her engaged in a convo. Guess I have a few day to fill up on my convo ammo. I find myslef talking more than W due to this, which is circumventing my aspiration to just shut up and listen.
Back to the C, W really liked her. I do not know if she is solutions based. Did not ask 1st time. To be honest, I chose her b/c she is lterally in an office at the end of our street. I was going for convenience for my W! W has an appt next Thurs, so I am actually feeling pretty good after a crappy sad day. I don't really get too personal with work people, so only a few know. Had a sales guy keep asking about my plans and W and all this. Really awkward.
I have determined that when I talk to W, I'm happy, even if it ain't so great. When I don;t hear, I'm sad. But, when I leave msg, text with no response, I'm downright depressed. So, will fight to leave it alone. Like you said, no pressure.
She also asked me to dogs Sat as she is visiting a friend. I hesitated until she said she did not have to go if I could not. I will be in town, so I said yes. I also it would give me a chance to work aorund the house. Kicking myself for that, just should have done the work, not said anything. Live and learn.
Overall, W sounded in very good spirits, which menas I am too. I have been very worried about her sadness. It kills me to know she's going through this too. I've asked several mutual friends to call her from time to time. Made sure not to call on my behalf, just to call and let her know she still has friends.
OK, this is long. More to say on diff subject after a bit.

[dlt1]

So on the GAL...I have a life. That is a large part of what got me here. My priorities were friends, me, wife, marriage. I had been self conscious about gaining 20 lbs this year. My wife has lost a bit more in same time due to her diligent work out and diet regimen. So, one change is that I am biking daily, and working on a work out routine in the a.m. Curious to see the results when I am at home this weekedn watching dogs and get to weigh in on our scale.
Had a trip planned with a few friends from out of town for 1st Aug weekend that i backed out of to be available for W time. Decided tonight and committed that I need to get away, so am going. May come back early Sunday for W time, as that seems to be the day she wants to have as together time (not sure she wants that at all, maybe just appeasing me).
What I'm gettig at is I have been doing the GAL thing which got me here. So the balance of that vs. changing to a better man with better priorities is downright confusing. And my 180 seems should be to pay more attention to her. But I need to give her space.
Side note: been trying to read the success stories, but the comp at my current residence may have been made by Al Gore himself when he 1st invented the internet. It likes to freeze up a lot. I get about an hour at work to check things out, but can't really think with the interruptions and such. I don't want to bring my comp over for 2 reasons:
1 seems like a big action signifying permanance of sitch
2 W has own comp on router that is touchy and if I disconnect (mine is main comp) might screw her internet. (Read: reason for me to stop by house once a week).
Yeah, I know my head isn't straight and can point out these things. Just so weird right now, up seems down and so forth.
Looking forward to my puppies crowding me in bed this weekend. We have a 120 lb Dane/Wolfhound and an 85 lb Pyr/Lab. No wonder she can get by without me, they match me pound for pound!
Thank God for laughs!!!!