Protect you kids from a war of accusation with your wife. Sven's advice is sound.
Protect your financial interests.
Your wife right now is confused, hurt and filled with hate. Don't get consumed by bitterness or anger. I'm really preaching to myself, here. Radiate strength and love.
I'm sorry to hear/read the struggle you've been dealing with. I'm focused on being happy, loving and uber-positive. I have no choice.
I just received a call from D6 telling me about her day at the pool with mom..., followed again by a request not to breakup with mom, try really hard dad to not be mean so you don't have to breakup.
I'm battling demons of hate right now. Intense rage. Bitterness. I wish there was a way to tell my wife, the next time you tell them I was mean I will let them know that mommy says I hate you to daddy, mommy says I don't want to be with you, around you or anywhere that you are, to daddy. Kids, is that a nice thing to say to daddy? Now who is the meanest of them all kids?
I would never do that, but the anger that boils up when I think about my D6 believing that all that needs to happen is for dad to not be mean really pushes a lot of buttons right now. And to realize that it will be years before she will learn the totality of events that led us down this path, as Sven has advised numerous times, patience. Even in this, patience is my ally.
Tyler - don't think I've posted to you before but I've read your threads off and on. I'm so sorry to hear about all you're going through. You sound really good in spite of it all.
About your kids... is there some way you can discuss just this component of it with your W?? Could you both agree on some way to explain it to the kids that doesn't involve the blaming? I am just thinking that deep down your D6 is probably thinking that if she only tries hard enough, does things right, she can fix it. (on top of the blaming you, she's probably beating herself up for all her pleading not working). I don't have kids and have no idea HOW you'd go about this, but I would hope your W cares at least enough about them to agree to something...
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
Hi Nikki, I did try to discuss this with her and the response at that time was simply, you reap what you sow.
I didn't really understand that so I asked what in the world does that mean? W told me that the emotional abuse I heaped on her was hidden for years, as opposed to physical abuse which would have been visible, so now she won't cover it up any more nor will she hide it from my girls, so they will know they can stand up for themselves.
Okay. I get that, yet there has to be a better way. At this point my only option is to answer my kids with an apology. I am sincerely sorry they have to go through this, I am sincerely sorry I hurt their mother.
I'm at a loss where to go with it from there. I would welcome your, and anyones, thoughts on this one. Kids or not, I believe help can come from a variety of sources, whether you have direct experience with children of your own or not. I'm willing to try any approach at this point. My kids are hurting so bad.
Tyler - wow, what a messed up response from your W. She's putting them in such a bad spot because being kids, all they want is mommy and daddy together. And if they think all it takes is you not "being mean" to her, of course they're going to keep begging for that. And at 6 being mean probably means, I dunno, calling names or stealing the other kid's stickers or something. She's not teaching them to stand up for themselves, she's just confusing the heck out of them.
I realize you know all this, just throwing it out there as it was the first thing that came to mind.
I think it's good to tell them you're sorry they are going through this, but I wonder if there's another way to phrase it besides being sorry that you hurt their mom. At that age, it might sound like you really were just "being mean" and that it should be easy enough to stop and things would all be fixed. So the kids see you as nice and polite as can be and things STILL aren't fixed? As your D6 I'd be thinking "Hmm what else can I try or make mommy/daddy try?"
Maybe it would be better to just say that you both need some time away from each other right now?? Sometimes grownups need time apart to figure out what they need to do? I'm just thinking that way at least the message coming from you is that "it takes two" - rather than hearing from both parents that it's all your fault.
I know it won't take away their pain (boy do I wish I had the magic answer for that!). But at least maybe it will give a little more realistic view of what's happening. That it's not all one person's fault, and it's also not as simple as "being mean."
Apologies if you've already been over this, but would your W be willing to go to counseling (either with you or separately to the same counselor) to learn how to help co-parent, or how to best help your kids through this?? Nothing remotely about the R/M, just solely focused on the kids?
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
Unfortunately, what your W doesn't realize is that your children are reaping what she is sowing. It's all very well, and good, to teach one's kids to stand up for themselves, but quite another to assume all men are mean. This is what your W is teaching your daughters. She calls what you did emotional abuse, but was it really, or was she such a whimp that she couldn't say anything back until she had someone outside the M to run to? C'mon, I hope she isn't insulting the women who really suffer from emotional/psychological and physical abuse, just to have an excuse to demean you to the kids, and a way of explaining why she is leaving. If I had to think back on my M then I would say, possibly, that my H was emotionally abusive, but in fact, I see him just as an emotional coward. I am not a whimp, so I am quite happy to assert myself, so I think that could've been your W's issues really.
Not that you didn't add to the marital problems, I'm sure (not letting you off the hook, but want you to see things realistically), but abuse is a big word when I am sure she was never under any threat, and probably wouldn't have had any problems if she didn't have her own self esteem issues, and lack of assertiveness.
Just a thought!
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
She will be mandated by the courts to attend co-parenting sessions. Hopefully that will do something.
You know when she started to really run with this emotional abuse thing I researched the heck out of it. I had a connection so I was able to talk to a woman that runs a shelter here. I talked to her, a lot, hours upon hours. Read materials she would get for me, actually talked to some victims of mental/emotional abuse, it's heart rending. The things these men did to keep these women afraid, threatening their children, pets, family and friends. Calling the vile names, screaming at them, getting them drunk out of their mind and then letting their friends have sex with them while they were passed out..., then holding this against them telling the woman that she is a slut just like they said she was since she screwed his buddy, unbelievable stuff. I did so much research. I really wanted to know what I did, and why so I could fix it and never do it again. Whether I was with her or someone else, I didn't want to keep being an abuser. Finally after a few months of this, this manager of the shelter took me aside and said, "listen, you are not an abuser. You might have crossed a line into abusive for a time, I can't make that call, but I do know I have never seen anyone work at this as hard as you have. If you were a female you could work here as a facilitator with the knowledge you have gained. It doesn't add up to the behavior of an abuser. You have to forgive yourself, and refuse to accept the label she is trying to put on you."
She said abuse is sometimes only in the eye of the victim, abuse to one isn't even close to another. Okay, what's that mean for me. She said it had a lot more to do with my W's childhood than anything.
Not letting myself off the hook either. Just after watching the videos of interviews with victims of emotional abuse taken at the shelter, (used with their permission as part of educating abusers), I really think I was at the far end of it, and would agree in the assessment of being closer to not true abuse.
Jealous, smothering, suspicious and the behavior that tends to generate?
Unfortunately, yes.
Crossing over into abuse?
Unfortunately for me, only the victim can determine this. In my case, the victim is locked in to this and won't let it go no matter who tries to point out to her that she might be a little off on this one. It's her reason to get out and nothing is going to change her mind.
So Tyler, your job now is to show her that the jealous, suspicious, smothering man is in the past. It will take a while for that to show through but that is your main DB task. You know her complaints and now you need to do something about them. It may not bring her back, hopefully it will, but by doing so you will be a better person and a man ready for the next R that comes your way. It's all good if you work at it.
Right now your wife thinks she's right and justified in leaving you. She's trying to paint to you as an "emotionally abusive" person to the world and to your children.
Politely ask her to stop. And ask her to speak to a competant family counselor with you to decide how to talk to the children about this.
I'm not an expert. If your wife continues to do this, talk to a counselor yourself. Perhaps saying to your kids, "Daddy and Mommy have lots of grown up problems. Daddy wants to stay together with Mommy. I promise you I will try to be as nice to Mommy as I can, but sometimes, even nice people don't always get along."
The anger inside you comes from the feeling of injustice. It's natural and good. Don't let it consume you.
W threatened me with a order of protection. I asked why and she said harrasment and I grabbed her hand. What in the world? How does it come to this? Last night she followed me into the bathroom as I was taking a shower. She was telling me that she is going to get a lawyer, no mediation for her, and she was going to get 75% of my paycheck. I asked if she was done, I reached for the doorknob to open the door, she grabbed the doorknob and said, "not yet, I'm not done". Then she ripped me some more. How she doesn't want to be anywhere near me. If she is in the room with the kids, I have to stay out, and vis a vis. I said, look I'm tired, I want a shower and to go to bed, I grabbed the doorknob, her hand was still on it, and said, please leave so I can take a shower.
That constitutes grabbing her hand in a way that justifies an order of protection?
My lawyer said to ignore it. It won't fly, it's baseless and will be seen as an act of attrition. My lawyer also told me that W told her that she has never feared anything physical from me, that I'm not that type of guy and I have never laid a hand on any woman. My lawyer said she will testify on my behalf to those statements from my W if it comes down to it.
I don't know her any more. I don't know her at all.
On the upside, I'm reading a great book recommended by tampaguy called God Loves an Unmade Bed. Check it out. I'm learning a lot about how God looks at me and it's helping.
Sorry for the downer post. I'm getting ready for my surgery tomorrow morning. No big deal, simple procedure God willing. 3 ligaments and a busted kneecap. It will go quick and I will recover fine. I'll be up and dancing in no time at all. I will be away from the board for a few days.
God bless you all, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and hopes for my situation. It means so much.
