H coming today, what do I do when he asks how I am

[SallyM]

again, thanks for all of the support. will hold steady and no baseball bats. although maybe a nerf one? or a whiffle one? satisfying, but no real damage. hmmm...tempting. I don't know if I could do this without you all. and 25yearsmic, again, its nice to hear from someone who has has btdt and has been able to make a go of it. and omg, college, I'm having enough trouble with kindergarten this year.

I also had a good long talk with my friend last night, too. its funny, so much about this book is stuff she's been telling me to do since day 1. She's happy I'm finally at a place that I can be consistent about it.

still, its hard. I know I keep saying that, but it is. I love playing games, but not this kind. I hate relationship games, and this smacks of it. but I suppose its the only thing i have left.

he just called to talk to the kids, later than normal. it was rather chaotic here, kids whining/yammering on in the background, so no real chance to gauge his mood at all. he still sounds stiff. asked me if I had plans to go somewhere when he comes over today, I told him yes, then he asked how late I would be. he has to take his boss and one of the guys who works for him to dinner tonight, so wants to take off early (usually wants to put the kids to bed). I told him no problem. honestly, it isn't, and since he's taking the kids tomorrow for a couple of days, I'm happy to have a little more time with the kids. I didn't really have anyplace to go, other than the gym, was just going to go for a drive or something anyway. so will go to the gym while he spends time with them. will try to remain upbeat, etc., when I do see him.

any other advice?

[big_tuna]

morgan: the gym is perfect....no better way than to deal with this s*** than a good hard workout.....hang tough...youre doing awesome...BT

[SallyM]

first, thanks Bt, appreciate the support.

no gym today after all. things got a bit wonky time-wise and I'm not feeling that great.

now for what happened. first, at swimming lessons today, my S5 lost it...supposedly about not going first for stuff, but it was to the nth degree, so not what it was about. he was not himself, I'm sure what happened yesterday affected him. it was pretty obvious daddy was mad at mommy.

H called at some point to tell me about his mom being sick, and I filled him in on what happened. not in an accusatory, you're a dick, look what you are doing to the kids way, but just giving him a heads up. he didn't say much, but appreciated that I had told him.

he came this afternoon to spend a couple of hours with the kids. no gym, as stated above, I'm not feeling well so figured I'd just lay down upstairs for a bit. first, he had a talk with me about a new job he might be taking. has the interview tomorrow, but almost sounds like a done deal. I'm worried about the repurcussions for me...its a tiny company, what will health insurance be? the money the one guy talked about sounds great, but will it really be that? will know more tomorrow. I'm sick because I think this is one step closer to her, since they won't be in the same company anymore, no problems with their relationship, company speaking anyway.

still, I wished him luck and tried to seem upbeat. then S5 came to show the toys he was gathering for the sleepover. H had to tell him that was tomorrow night, not tonight. S5 lost it...ran away and hid his face in the corner, tears streaming down it. he wouldn't talk to H, only me, finally I got him to come in my room with me and I tried to have a chat with him. finally got him calmed down and willing to spend time with H and he went to play. H asked me what was up, I told him he was just sad, it was going to happen from time to time, we just have to be there to watch and listen to him, etc, etc.

this is what pisses me off. H said he didn't think any of this was afffecting him, that he wasn't sad at all. I looked at him like he was high and said, of course he's sad, what kid wouldn't be? H said he figured kids were adapatable and figured he should be fine by this point. umm, hello???? the fact that I didn't go off on this man is amazing, in my book. I am so freaking angry right now I could spit nails. trying not to show it, trying to be upbeat and all the db things I need to be, but folks, I don't know if I can do this much longer. seriously.

what kind of an ass is he? seriously? this is all so freaking casual to him. how can he treat his kids and me this way? he's a good father, he loves his kids, at one time he loved me, and it was so special. but omg, seriously, wtf???????

this all seems so useless. all of it. all of this effort from me, when there is none from him. seriously, is it even worth it to keep at it at this point? is it?

[25yearsmlc]

Morgan,

You are doing a lot of things the exact way you ought to be, as far as I understand this whole DB thing. Give yourself much smaller goals and you'll see it better. One goal, staying calm in your convos with h. You are. Not initiating R talk which you are also staying true to. When your h says it's all on his shoulders, well, the decision to bring a 3rd party into the M was HIS choice. You can simply say, "You've made some choices that were really hurtful to me and our M and I don't want responsibility for those choices..." As for the 180's, do NOT ask him if he likes you better now. What answer can he give that would be good? If he does say yes, so what? If he isn't ending the A what diff does it make? And if he says no, it'll hurt.

Point is, YOU like the 180's and THAT answer is the best one for him to hear anyhow. You are doing these things b/c you want to be the best you that you can be. He can't argue with that. If he says "why not earlier?" I think that is him trying to make this about you and your flaws and why YOU didn't do blah blah blah "before" he HAD to have an A to get you to change....whatever.

Each of you have to take responsiblity for your role in the M and the M's problems. You ARE and that is why you are going to be a better partner from now on, regardless of with whom...as far as your h is concerned, what changes has HE made to improve himself? Why would he? Isn't it easier to start with someone new? It's like driving your car and seeing a red light for "engine check needed" which could mean oil change needed" in your car but instead of getting the oil changed and having the problem(s) checked out, you go buy a new car instead. Then when that car needs some work, trading that one in too....never getting the tools or help needed to just keep the car they have working.

Come up with some personal goals of things like not getting angry at your h, in front of him. Mark each day of success with something. Know that he will NOT immediately change but it will probably annoy him more at first. I think my h must have tested me, subconsciously, a number of times. He was just kind of an ass and I don't know why I'm saying "kind of...." anyhow, if you ever feel like re-reading my old posts--and they go back pretty far, before his choice to go to Alaska, which I then interpreted as meaning the M was over...point being I went through a lot of dark days here. Doubt I would have believed my life would be as it is now and I am not totally sure I'm doing the right thing. But it's better than what I think my choices are now. Plus I like to think my h has learned some things. He asked me to wait before getting d10's school clothes b/c he wants to be there for that too, and said I'm "hogging" the glory or whatever. He has missed the little things but also stuff I resented being the only parent to be around for, so that's good I think. He seems to treasure the same things that used to be "time consuming" or he was too busy for. Now that 2 of the kids are out of the house, he doesn't have a lot of time to waste. He needs to be fully present for this last one or he'll have missed the most important times of HIS life, and I think maybe he is learning that the hard way.

Was2Sad really helped me see that some of the choices the WAS make are not about us OR how they feel about US...very important to tell yourself that every day. I would cry in the shower but also did some "forgiveness" excersises and letting go of the anger, or turning it over to God, etc inside the shower. Best when done right before you think the H will call. Also, I agree with the advice about limiiting your contact with your h. Let him miss you and do NOT assume that him not calling you means anything. He misses you much more than he wishes. Hence the calls during the New York calls. I had some chances to note that, and it helps. Also, I started meeting other people, including some men. Nothing big, but kind of eye opening.

As far as what your h wants and selling the house, etc, Slow down. Who cares if your h wants his own place or to live with ow? All that matters to you is what YOU want to do. It is not your problem that he lives with his mom or cannot afford two places of whatever the consequences are of his choices. you don't have to point out the consequences b/c he is figuring out that life is handing those to him anyhow. Just don't take responsibility for his choices.

I kind of hope he does live with her so he can see all her human traits, which include her flaws. They are much easier to notice when you live with them than when they are only together in patches of time. When you hate that the kids will meet her, IF that time comes, just know that it will be grosser for your H and ow. No way can she match you over time, and the awkwardness of the time together will not be your problem. Let her "enjoy" being with 3 small kids of someone else's, when it's raining outside, or they fight, or get sick and all is not well. Is she a mom? Either way it's good for you. If she is a mom, she'll feel like crap and btw, when are her kids going to be your h's "guests"? If she isn't, it'll show. THis is a sitch that you won't lose on, even if things don't end up your way. Also, as long as you remain calm, and listen to your h's comments about life in general, (not the R/M) like his friend, which you ARE and don't think for a minute that he doesn't know it, it will be noted, and missed.

I believe if you do this, in time, he'll want some sort of closeness with you. Who knows what that will lead to? maybe you'll have found someone else and your h will want back in and then, you'll have a dilemma which we'll all help you with at that time. OR maybe he'll know he can't waltz back in but will want some friendship with you and maybe you'll be able to handle it and that will benefit your kids b/c they won't have to face constant pulling from each parent, or hear the fighting, etc...

My sister's ex does know he "f----- up" when he left her, after 22 years of M. He is remarried today, as she is. He is not happy as far as I can tell, and describes his wife as "high maintenance"....my sister was definitely Not high maintenance, her ex was. Ironic. My sister is much happier in her new M, although it still saddens her that her idiot h left and the kids were hurt, as was she. Yet, even she would likely know that she is better off. Her ex did her a favor as far as I can tell. But I cannot speak for the kids, except that they don't have to witness their dad's selfishness or constant anger issues. That can't be all bad. BTW, I told my sister to consider herself lucky to have heard thoese words from her ex. Most of us never get to hear them.

My h will agree that he made some bad choices, feels bad, etc but he sure does not want to go there. He wants to "start fresh" and I guess that means I have to work on letting go of the past. Easier said than done. Like when normal things irritate him, I feel as if he has no right to complain b/c of what he put me through. There is not a lot of guidance on putting the past behind us Morgan. All I can do is take it a little at a time like, staying in the present for a week at a time...each week I am able to do that, reminds me of what we CAN have together and that itself, helps me to let go of the past a bit more. So far, that's my plan, fwiw.

You are doing better than you know. Don't expect immediate changes in your h, yet you are saying some already. You don't know it, but some of them are positive. I love that he apologized for the finger, and then got angry again. what a pendulum and he knows he's acting like a nut. Saying HE can't live like this anymore, as if it was easy for YOU....btw,there is no such thing as "giving a divorce" these days. If one party wants a D, they can get one, period. As a L, I hate telling women over 55 that, b/c they usually dont realize it. The state grants it, not the LBS. But it also means your h has no "excuse" for not filing if that is what HE wants...

Don't do his dirty work for him. As far as what you two have together, you can say, 3 beautiful people, a home, a past/vows and a future of SOME SORT no matter what happens, b/c of the 3 kids.... YOu don't have to know what YOU want b/c you don't know what he is capable of now. Committing? Wanting his cake and eating it too? who knows? But as long as the "wife isn't a shrew" anymore, how can he justify not being with the mother of his children? It'll get harder as each day of that truth, passes.

Don't tell him you hate him, if he asks. You can say you hate some of his choices but he is the father of your children and you'll always honor that. YOu expect the same from him. Similarly, your comment that you don't deserve to be spoken to that way and walking out of the room, is PERFECT. Keep it up. I think it's starting to work.
j-

[SallyM]

25yrsmlc, you are really wonderful. seriously. you seem to have such a handle on things, and I really appreciate the input/advice. I do.

still don't think I can hold it together much longer. I was able to pull it together and be bright and ME while he was here (I posted while he was upstairs with the kids). no mention of yesterday, just me being me, normal, so to speak. but omg, I can't do this. yes, there are small accomplishments, but I just feel him getting further and further away from me. we are mere aquaintences now and it is crushing me. it is. its killing me.

a friend of mine called today that I haven't told, haven't talked to him in ages, actually. an old college roommate, last time I saw him was when he was here for a dinner party a few months ago (pre-bomb). I finally told him what was going on. he nailed it perfectly, he started to say all the nice, comforting things, then finally stopped and just said, "that f-ing blows." he said more, but that just sums it up so well.

I told H that he called and gave him the update on their new baby, and H asked if I told him. I told him I did. H asked what he said...I told him just that, that "that f-ing blows", and that he hopes we can work it out still. H couldn't have looked more uncomfortable. he does when the "working out" thing comes up. He's just so far gone.

I mean, c'mon, what happened to the last couple of weeks when things felt so much better? I mean, I know they didn't mean anything really, but things at least felt better...at least we were G and M again, instead of this couple who doesn't even know each other. he's done a complete about face and I don't think I can handle it.

he's practically salivating about this job. it would mean that he could be with her, legitimatly, and the money is such that he would feel less guilty leaving. it wouldn't be like I had his full salary (what he is making now), but it would be more comfortable for me and the kids until I figure out how to start a career at 40. talk about your win win! he gets to lessen his guilt on taking care of us, but at the same time gets the woman he actually wants.

omg, it hurts so much. I have never felt so alone in my life. I'm not a person who wants to spend her life alone. don't get me wrong, I like my own company and have no problem with alone time...I crave it from time to time, I need a certain amount of it. but overall, I'm a partner person. I am. always have been. and I know I'll be okay if I'm alone, but I don't want to be. I like having someone there. I want to have him there, but oh god, if he won't be, I need to know there is someone else out there who is not completely afraid of a 40 year old woman with 3 little kids. I mean, who is looking for that?

sorry, rambling and crying now. big loser sitting here.

[chaflo]

I dont know your hole story as I have been away from this site in a long time. We all have our days where we are not as strong. I am sure you are a beautiful, smart, and even "sexy" woman and you will NOT stay alone even if you do have 3 kids! It takes more time, yet if you do decide not to stick around waiting for him to snap out of it, dont settle for anything but the best as you deserve the best! Trust me, a few weeks back my ex came to bring the girls and his jaw dropped to the floor!! No he is not back nor is he planning on returning, but knowing that I am feeling great about myself makes him think I am sure about what he did by leaving! Hang in there, draw yourself a nice warm bubble bath once the kids are in bed and enjoy a nice big glass of OJ as you sit and remind yourself how wonderful you are and how much you are worth!

[25yearsmlc]

Morgan,

every thing Chaflo said, except switch the OJ for wine...just a thought. Anyhow, so you think one step forward and maybe one or two back means all bad???? Means some forward progress, which scared him, made him wonder about his choices, irritated him b/c he started to wonder about whether you are moving on and whether he has pushed too far that he couldn't go back, which must scare the crap out of him. Don't think he hasn't had Major Doubts...he does and has...so keep up the whole upbeat deal, and frankly, as long as you're pleasant enough to him, upbeat and Not unforgiving BUT also Not a doormat.

You are right to expect and require more respect in his manner toward you, especially since you'll give it to him. If he sees that, with his poop, he'll know at some level that if he really really "got it' you might be open to him. And if you act like a doormat, "publishing" to him that anything goes as long as he MIGHT come back, you won't maintain self respect, growth, and you won't look attractive either.

I can only assume it must really annoy him in a way, every time you act the opposite way he has convinced himself you are. Throws him off big time. Not to mention how he deals with the guilt you'll never know of...your goal is to feel better about YOUR life without concern for his. As for the money situation, first off, I missed something. If your h gets a better job, good for you and the family's finances, right? Okay. Somehow this relates to ow? Will they be together more? Bet the employer will LOVE that... I give them 6 months.

As for your fears, they are so normal. I've had clients (from when I worked full time, years ago--so I know how the fear of re-entering the work force is) who feared being single again. They'd have the whole "bag lady syndrome" thinking they'd die alone, fat and sad and undiscovered for months, until wild dogs would find them...

(Read Brigett Jones Diary for great singledom nightmares...). Even a female physician I knew told me was afraid of whether she'd make it on her own. We ALL get that fear. Especially with little ones. But you will make it.

Also, when one aunt told me to think "hard about the money", I did. I am not stupid and I will always put my kids ahead of my pride. But at the same time, I also feel it'd be better to live in my sister's basement than to put up with too much "stuff." When you get to the point that you REALISTICALLY assess the worst case scenario, and can handle it, you can start making choices for YOU and YOUR future. Do not let his idiocy ruin YOUR life as well as his.

I recall starting to look at teaching jobs in Italy, France,etc which my d10 would love to do for a year or two, and started to feel the freedom of NOT having to put H's job before all else. It felt pretty good after awhile. You'd be surprised at how many men will date and marry a woman with 3 kids. My brother M a woman with 3 girls, and his own 3, and they've had a girl as well. (yep, that = 7 girls) They seem happy, and he dated many single moms before that. In some ways he preferred mothers since he was a dad with half custody.

You will survive and in time, you will be happy again, and loved again. When you begin to know this, you'll start healing yourself. There are good guys out there and this bb is proof of it. I am NOT saying give up, I'm saying that preparation for life as a single woman is not the same as giving up. IT's self protection. If you end up reconciled, you'll be a bit more independent and maybe more self assured and self reliant. If you don't end up together, you'll be moving on that much faster...it doesn't mean getting sad more. It means to start looking at the positives of his being gone---even the little ones and at first that is all they are, little. I noticed that having the toilet seat down was a small nice thing as was getting to watch chick flicks, and having cottage cheese and fruit for lunch. Not having someone critisize how I shop, or clean, or pay bills, or whatever, was also nice. Some men attack when they feel guilt, and my h was super UN-fun before he left. Wasn't hard to see the positives of his departure, and surely you've noticed that the tension level is lower without him around. Baby steps.
j-

[SallyM]

my problem is I don't want to really move on. I don't. and yesterday, I saw the indifference in H. I saw the door shut to us. I saw it...I could feel the distance grow even as he was here.

talked to my friend (a therapist) last night for a long time. she's been so great all along, and has pretty much nailed all of his actions/reactions. she pretty much agreed with me, that he is gone now. something happened to make him re-commit to OW.

I just feel like this is hopeless now. Yes, baby steps are important. and everything you both said is comforting. but at the same time, I'm so tunnel visioned, all I want his him again. yes, I can see the silver linings, can appreciate that I do have something to offer someone else, that there is some peace in not having him here at times. but in all honestly, I just want him. I want my husband back. I want my best friend back. and nothing I am doing or can do will make that happen. I've done everything he wanted, everything he said was wrong with our marriage, at least on my end, and it did nothing to change anything. nothing. I'm db'g, I'm trying to at least fake it till I make it, and I do know that I am upbeat for real around him a lot of the time. still, nothing. if he feels anything from any of this, he sure as hell doesn't show it. do my 180s confuse him? do they make it him think twice? do they do anything at all? I hope so, but seriously, the man I saw here yesterday didn't give a rats ass. not about anything but himself. nothing.

am I a doormat? maybe I am. he knows I know he's still in contact with her, and I don't talk about it, DB and all that. He has to know I suspect they are going away this weekend, but I don't bring it up...db and all that. so how do I db and still not be a doormat?

and how do I act when he comes over today? just same old, same old? upbeat and busy? interested in how his interview went? do I offer advice if he does want the job? (could remind him of stuff he might not be thinking of, a signing bonus would be nice right about now). do I just act like an acquaintence?

[MikeinMidland2]

OK, first of all, the new job is a positive development:

1) Most employers know that workplace romance is rampant and unstoppable. It is usually only an issue when it is supervisor and subordinate. If necessary they re-assign somebody. This is not a reason for H to change jobs.
2) OW is a symptom. H and OW got together due to PROXIMITY. That will be reduced.
3) A new job will be interesting, challenging, time-consuming. Less need for "changes" in the rest of his life, more need for "stability."
4) More money is never a bad thing.

Secondly, even if H hasn't read DB, don't you think he can see when a situation isn't working for him, and he needs to "act differently?" After his blow-up the other day, he felt the need to demonstrate his indifference, and his resolve to continue his current plan. He may even be blowing hot (angry) and cold (indifferent) on purpose to see how the "new you" responds.

Let him be how he wants to be. You continue to be upbeat, positive, and light. Do not ask R questions. ALSO, do NOT give ANY advice re his potential job change, because he will put the worst possible spin on it. If you suggest asking for a signing bonus, he will think you are money-hungry. If you want him to take it, he will think you don't want him working with OW. Or just plain think that you are STILL trying to RUN HIS LIFE. So, don't.

[SallyM]

thanks mike. a few things I wasn't clear about...they both are on the same team, but have home offices. according to H, this would be severely frowned upon even so. possibly because he's having an affair, but likely also that he used his expense acct to finance a good chunk of it. of course, he's expected to socialize/spend it on entertainment and hotels and such with the acct, so who knows if that actually matters. still, when I first found out, his panic was that I would go to his boss (???).

if he is offered/takes this job, he would still be working with OW...his current company would be his possible companys acct, it would be HIS acct. and she would likely step into his role, so they would have lots and lots of contact. even if she stays in her current role, they would. of course, even if they were completely unrelated job wise, they could still choose lots and lots of contact, so probably doesn't matter...unless he chooses to stay in the M.

I'd agree about your third point, if it didn't feel like he's already so gone from me, so commited to her. more likely he won't rock the boat with her. but hey, maybe I'll be surprised.

for your 4th point, you are right, more money is never a bad thing. in fact, it would be quite nice. but at the same time I worry about how I will be covered in certain things like health insurance...I've already talked to a couple of lawyers, I know how MA lays things out. I know the money already, I know that with a larger company/major health co, he will be required to keep me on even if he remarries (until I do, I think, but definitely until I get a job that has insurance). I'm worried because this is a very small company (25 people). not sure how that affects things. but will try to put that aside until I know for sure.

am curious if he'll even talk with me about taking the job first, or if he'll tell me after he's decided.

will take your advice about holding back on offering advice. I'm usually the person he comes to for stuff like this, and I have been able to get him stuff in the past he doesn't always think of. but will bite my tongue.

I'm going to hope against hope that you are right in the blowing hot/blowing cold. not that it necessarily makes a difference, but it helps me to stay the course.