NikkiB #18

[oldtimer]

"When I look through the whole cycle I only see one small part of it that I have much influence in. "

Uh, take another look. Exactly which steps in the cycle does he get to take without your participation???

[Confident_Me]

Just wanted to pop in & say "hi"

"If you set goals and go after them with all the determination you can muster, your gifts will take you places that will amaze you." - Les Brown

[C_K]

Nikki

I realy think OW is just a fantasy for him , He realy sees a long term future with you but she is an unhealthy habit.She has BF but still hanging on?
At some stage he is going to have to kick the habit if he realy wants a long term great relationship with you.
This is something he may need help to figure out.

Dave

[JAK58]

jak
haha it's actually good the poodle hair is out. Makes her easier to spot and avoid since NO ONE else has that style anymore.

Thanks for posting. Hope to see you over here soon!! I will try to check out your thread today.

Nikki,

Good for you, And how awful for anyone who has to look at that on a daily basis.

I do hope to be over here soon. I know I should be here now but I feel that if I find nothing for OW on her B-Day Aug. 23 that i can do that.

I know, no snooping but I feel that H promised me nothing is going on and I am going to make sure that there is nothing.I have had all the BS I am going to take and I am not going to take any more!

What if I find something you ask? Then I call my attorney and have him send H a letter with my intentions. I think this will put the fear of god in him since I know he does not want D. I am ready for a D if need be so it is not an empty ultimatum. Although I honestly do not think it will come to that.

I told H in a letter I wrote to him that I would not tolerate any more interaction than is neccesary(as in cards gifts and talking about anything other than work) and I mean it.

I get what you mean about blind trust. I can assure you that will never happen in my house again. Trust yes but never blindly again.

Have you told him the "right thing to do" would be to make him happy in his life? Then if H is still choosing to be with you, it is because he wants you.

[JAK58]

OK, I guesss that remark about the Poodle hair was kind mean.

Im'e sorry That is her choice, her head.

[NikB]

Thanks all for posting.

Oldtimer
I'll reply to yours separately as it may get kinda long.

CM
Thanks for the hi and the quote! I like it.

Dave
Oh totally agree, he doesn't see a future with her I don't think. What's really weird is I don't think she'd even date him (probably making it worse...the "want what you can't have" syndrome). She just likes to make sure she has the full attention of any males around her, and their wives/girlfriends tend to get in the way of that. I've seen her work... it's really kind of amazing. Guys who are totally secure in their relationships RUN from her, it's almost an instinctive reaction. Guys who are even slightly vulnerable in their R are drawn to her, and she's drawn to the drama of "helping" them break off their R/M, so there you go... the rollercoaster begins.

She's been in at least one and usually more than one R during the time they've had this EA going on (I believe about 95% that it never got to PA but I don't know for sure). At the beginning she had an H and a boyfriend. Then I think her D went through, but she still had her (also married) boyfriend, and started dating another guy - who she currently calls her boyfriend. I don't think she broke it off with the first one yet but I'm not sure. H has even TOLD me post-bomb he knows an R with her would be a mistake, how destructive she is, etc. etc. etc. I hope you're right that he decides to kick the "friend" habit with her though (and hopefully, before I am so fed up it's too late).

jak
Naah don't worry about the poodle hair comment. Heck I made it first, you just responded to it. And yeah you're right her hair, her choice, but that doesn't mean it's attractive. If she were my friend I'd tell her the same thing (nicer way of course, but it really is ick).

Sounds like you're in a good mind set in your sitch. I know the whole "no snooping" thing but sometimes I wonder if it's possible to fully get your trust back without a little snooping. Once you've been lied to for so long, you kind of have this need to see for yourself, not just take the person's word for it who's been lying. If that makes any sense. I know this is probably something I need to actually get past, but it'll take some work for sure.

I've said something along the lines of what you mentioned about the right thing to do is pursuing happiness.. he agrees but then says he doesn't know what will make him happy. I suppose deep down it's all the perks of marriage plus all the perks of no commitments... but you don't get both.

[NikB]

OK... Oldtimer wanted to respond to you separately so I could quote my original 'cycle'. I'll number it to hopefully help it easier to follow my replies.

Here it is:

1. H pulls away from PW (sometimes due to me getting upset, sometimes due to a realization on his part that their "friendship" is unhealthy)

2. PW cries, begs, pleads, pesters, and H goes through a grouchy, dark, depressed phase. Sometimes his behavior seems like "defiant teenager" and more and more it moves toward "open and honest." (my guess... as the inappropriate actions/behaviors/contact die down he doesn't "need" to lie about it, and he probably also wants and deserves credit for the positive actions).

3. H breaks free and truly does limit contact to "required for work only." PW Number disappears from the phone etc.

4. H becomes very sweet, loving, kind, really seems "into" our M and making it work.

5. PW does or says something to suck him back in. Usually either dramatic (desparately needs his help with something and no one else can save her), or so subtle it seems harmless (it's just a bunch of coworkers at happy hour, what's the big deal?).

6. Contact increases.

7. H becomes convinced he's made a mistake being with me, unhappy with the M, starts increasing the distance (often accompanied by lying, sneaking, etc.. cause as long as you don't admit what you did it's not wrong.. ).

8. I get more and more upset, bottle it up, and finally blow up about it.

So you asked where I am not involved or participating. I thought about it more and thought of a LITTLE more involvement on my part but I still don't see a lot. What am I missing?? Here are my first thoughts...

1. Sometimes the pullback seems to be due to me expressing anger about my boundaries not being respected (albeit not usually in a calm way.. the times I express it calmly don't seem to have any impact).

2. I choose how I respond to the dark/depressed - try to be there for him but not fix anything. I have made a conscious effort NOT to assume every dark/depressed mood is about me (or PW) though. I also try to call him on it if/when I realize I'm being lied to.

3. No real involvement from me. If I see it happening I do what I can to encourage it.

4. This is one I need to work on... in the past I've gotten so excited that he's trying, I overdo things and I think push him away again. Or I get into this self-destructive thing where I do things that I KNOW are not good for either one of us or for our M. I think it somehow makes it easier to expect things to go downhill again and be somehow responsible for it. Sounds sick, I know, and I am really working on it. Stopping the self-sabotage/self-destruction is going to be one of my very first goals with IC.

5. I usually don't know about it until much later so there's no real involvement from me here.

6. Again... I find out later, somewhere around stage 7.

7. About this time I start realizing she's back in the picture because I start catching on to the lies, the attitude, the distance. I start desparately trying to figure out what my boundaries are, what to do, how to enforce them... which I continue to struggle with, as everyone here knows.

8. Only one that seems like it's totally "my" step... the freak out.

[oldtimer]

How does he do (4) or (7) without your participation?

He cannot do (4) unless you continue to have a relationship in which you accept his lack of full commitment to creating a great M.

He cannot do (7) unless you keep hanging around for his crap.

There is no going back and forth between you and PW at all without you accepting it.

[NikB]

Yep.. 4 and 7 are ones I acknowledge that I DO participate in. Those are the ones I'm still struggling with.

[NikB]

Oh... and forgot to journal about last night.

I did get my nails done and they look really nice! Attempting the gel nail thing for the first time. They were pricier but supposedly they last a lot longer. 2-3 weeks until I get them filled, and they're supposed to last with no chips, no touch ups, and they still look manicured (and are much more durable than regular polish). Hopefully they live up to the promise.. I love 'em so far. Can go from the nail place to home and doing dishes without having to "baby" my nails.

I got home and H was sleeping. I caught up on some chore stuff, cooked dinner, etc... H seemed kind of down again when he woke up (stage 2...). He was talking to me a lot and telling me about his day, very detailed as to where he was during lunch and after work, etc. I didn't specifically thank him for being so open but was enthusiastic about him telling me all that. Along the lines of your idea OT, I tried to get a little ummm frisky but it just didn't feel right (and neither of us seemed much in the mood). Soo... maybe the hot sex tonight instead.