This is my first day in this forum and my first time seeking advice anywhere.
First off, I'm 31, I am not married but I have had an exclusive relationship with a beautiful woman that I love for close to 3 years. We ordinarily get along pretty good. I enjoy spending time with her and we rarely have any major arguments. During a majority of our relationship, we would spend close to 100% of our free time together. I'm not saying I thought this was totally healthy as I thought we should each have alone time or time with other friends and I would occasionally bring that up but she pushed that a little and I became very used to her company.
She did have an affair after we were together about a year. It was during a rare 3-4 day argument we had that wasn't really over anything important. She said the affair meant nothing. That she was drunk and it was just a one day fling. But it led to so many distrust issues and was very hard for me to overcome. I never was the jealous type prior to that but it led me to start checking phone records, emails, etc. She promised that she would never hurt me in that way again. I did forgive her and after much effort finally stopped bringing it up and things got totally back to where they were prior to the affair.
Now here we are. She's offwork on Thursdays and Fridays but I never see her anymore on those days. This has been ongoing for the past 2 months. She also leaves for work early some days, and gets home late other days. She tells me shes visiting a relative in a nearby city 70-80 miles that she never went to visit previously. She stays the night there Thursday night and usually wont answer her cellphone if I call her on Thu/Fri or she will give me a delayed callback. When shes not off work, she stays home a lot more now instead of spending time at my house.
She's been talking to this guy from her work everyday on her cell phone which she keeps religiously by her side. Shes become very protective and serious about her cellphone where she wasn't previously. She hasn't introduced me to this guy, she told me he doesn't know that shes even in a relationship with someone, but she knows that he is in a relationship but he has still made some minor sexual hints/advances to her which she claims shes just ignored. The only way I found out about this guy was by snooping cell phone records after she started pulling away from me. I finally caught her with him in her car this week, and she told me it was nothing. But then she added to me on the phone later that day that they "are just friends", that she "didn't want me to find out", and they "haven't had sex YET...". Yes, she said YET. But if things don't work out between her and I, that they might someday.
This has brought everything that hurt me from the past back out into the open. I feel hurt, sad, betrayed, confused, jealous, like I'm not good enough for her, brokenhearted, and angry that she would even put us in a situation where this entire issue has come up again after it was so painful to get away from the first time. I feel like if our relationship was important to her that she would see that this is hurting me and causing our relationship stress and that she would want to end her involvement with the guy.
Every Thursday/Friday I can expect her to make plans now and be gone the entire 48 hour period, and we argue about it now. It's not just that I don't know what she is up to (I do believe she spends SOME time with the relative), but I also feel excluded, lonely, and I miss her on those days. Since they are her only offdays, we never get to spend much time together doing anything anymore. I question the point of being in a relationship where you never do anything together (the majority of the 5 days she works, she is either working or sleeping).
We haven't gone out to eat or gone to do anything fun or on any kind of date for at least 2-3 months now where we did previously. She blames gas prices, but then will go 60-70 miles away weekly to visit her relative and spend time with this guy. Yes, she even admits to spending time with the guy, but only as friends. She says they like to "hang out", and swears sex isn't involved (again, yet). She says that he is her friend, and I am her partner.
I have tried threatening a breakup for a few days. She convinced me with words that we should stay together but not necessarily with actions.
I have tried honest open discussion saying that I'd rather she not continue being friends with someone thats made even minor sexual advances/hints when shes considered them, and cheated in the past.
I have tried being overly responsive to her needs spending extra time with her or pushing us to be together but I think I'm annoying her with this approach.
This one issue is just ruining what to me was a perfect relationship as we're now fighting constantly. Whenever she gets a phone call, she will step out of the room and I'm thinking it's the guy. Whenever she leaves the house a little early, I'm thinking it's the guy and I can't help but to feel sad or angry. I just don't know what to do.
We fight about her being gone Thu/Fri, we fight about me asking her too many questions, we fight about me suggesting that we make some future plans for something fun to do. Just everything. But it all kind of revolves around this problem.
She hasn't indicated any desire to stop being friends with this other guy. I don't believe I'm wrong to ask for this based on the circumstances so I'd like advice on that as well. At the very least, I feel that she should have to inform him that shes in a relationship but since hes in one too and he seems willing to cheat, I don't feel that would be effective as he's apparently got low ethics and character.
She has now told me that everything would be different if we were married. She told me that she would never be hanging out with any guy friends if we were married. But I think these patterns are warning signs and indicate that things would actually get worse if we were to ever marry. Does anyone believe that she would be more dedicated just because of a marriage certificate? I treat our relationship as seriously as I would if we were married because we've discussed it to be exclusive and I want there to be that trust.
This is all I think about 24/7 lately and it's making me so sad. Thanks in advance for your help.
Sounds to me like she is already having an A. Please do not beg plead or even try to discuss your relationship with her right now,unless she brings it up first. If she brings R then Validate her feelings and do not argue with her and make it about you as that just makes it worse.
Have you read the book Divorce remeady? If not please get it and read.
You need to "act as if". That means act as if everything is fine with you. Go out with friends, do things for you do not tell her where you are going, be mysterious. Also do not set up times to see her. Let her come to you and then only do some of them with her not all. These are some things mentioned in the book.
Has she mentioned getting married before? has this been an issue with the two of you?
Maybe she is using this guy to get you to marry her also. Ya never know.
JAK
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
I just found this site last night doing a Google search so I haven't read any books but I will look for it. I appreciate your suggestion.
She has brought up marriage before. I am aware that she is more religious minded than me and that is an ultimate goal of hers. I am not practicing religion at this time and marriage isn't important to me. I can practice a faithful one-person relationship (I prefer it) without a marriage certificate. At times she has brought up the issue with pressure. Lately, until me catching her with this guy, she hasn't been bringing up the issue at all and hasn't now for months.
I believe you are probably right about the ignore-the-problem approach but wow it's hard. When she gets a phonecall, I want to ask who it was. When she leaves early or gets home late (we're neighbors which makes this worse), I want to ask why. When I ask if she wants to go out to eat sometime this week and she says no... but yes, I understand what you are saying. Stop calling. Stop asking. Give it some space. But it seems like that will just allow her to get closer to the other guy and pull away more in some ways. It's a no-win situation, right?
If she is using this guy to make you jealous, so that you will propose marriage, then she is a dishonest person, and not someone you should marry. More likely, she is using the "it would be different if we were married" excuse because she knows how you feel about marriage and therefore she has a convenient way to shut you up.
You are right about the no-win situation. If you pursue, she will pull away. If you ignore her, she has more time with the other guy. The only way you win, is for you to control how much time she spends with you. Meaning zero.
Do not call her. Do not make time for her. Make yourself very very busy. This is called "going dark." It will either make her miss you, or it will show her that she doesn't have to try to spare your feelings.
This girl has already started having a A. My wife denied spending time with anyone and said she only spent time with other guys in groups and they all knew she was married. She had been having one for months. Exacting the same as your girl.
That is A 101. Like they said she could either be trying to get a commitment out of you or she is getting ready to dump you once she finds out how serious this other guy is.
It's now been more than 24 hours since we've talked.
On Sunday around noon prior to writing my note on this site, she proceeded to go to sleep over at her house as she does everyday (she works nights). She gave me an out to leave but I pushed a little and stayed instead of leaving and it did end with some great sex (multiple times). We each fell asleep. We woke up hours later with her phone ringing, and her jumping up out of bed to take the call in the other room. Then she proceeded to leave for work 30 minutes early. That's when I came home and went online and wrote the note.
Upon me leaving her house yesterday, we had a minor argument about her leaving 30 minutes early for work (I'm not sure if it was for the guy or not; it would take at least 15-20 extra minutes to get to his place so I'm not sure what the point would have been leaving then but she wont give me any good reasons why; I know he works in the same place as her so maybe they just meet there and talk?). We also argued when I asked her why all of the pictures of the two of us had been removed from her room. She said she was just reorganizing things but all the pictures of her and her kids remained where they were so it was another explanation that didn't sound logical to me.
When I left, I was visibly angry. I told her I wasn't going to call her or stop by anymore until she figured things out. I told her to call me when she stopped playing games. Well, today she didn't call. We didn't talk at all. I wanted to call but I'm going to try this sites suggestions for a while and not. I think today was the first day in 3 or so years that we didn't talk at all. It seems like we've talked briefly/coldly during past small arguments. Today has gone by really slowly.
I wonder a little if I'm in the wrong with my conclusions even if everyone here agreed with me. If I'm actually just being overprotective and what if shes telling the truth and there has been no affair (yet) but shes just kind of friends and exploring the option. But I guess just the fact that she is hanging out with some other guy thats making advances on her is wrong when she knows its hurt me. But I know it's wrong to try and keep her from having any friends too. When I've made an issue of this, she asks me now, "so I can't have friends?"
It's just confusing. I wish our total trust was not broken with a past experience. She stood by me during a very, very rough period in my life and I feel like my future life would be a lot worse without her. I wish I would have been a better boyfriend - more romantic. I concentrate a lot on business/work (I own my own business) and times have been hard.
Thanks for everybody thats replied to my post. I'm trying to take everyones advice.
Let it go for a few days, as hard as that may be. Yes, even if there is no A yet, an EA could be going on, but you're right hanging out w/ some other guy that's making advances is wrong if you are in an R w/ someone else.
Let her chase you -- let her wonder what you're up to. Go to the gym, do something, just get out of the house and do something so you're not dwelling constantly.
You're going to have to get yourself back either way -- whether she comes back or not. She's not going to come back if you are desparate, etc. Make her want to come back.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
I am guilty of already making all of the smart alleck comments that I don't really mean like that. I said a number of things on the phone when I first saw her with this guy (they were driving away so I called her). There were many phone calls until she turned her phone off and I think I said every dumb thing in the book.
I've already said I'd like to meet him even if I really would rather not. She just didn't answer the first time. When I asked again later she just said "no". After having participated in conversations like this, I can tell you that they only made me madder and probably didn't do anything to help our relationship. That is why I think I'm going to try this ignoring approach for a while.
I am curious to see if she'll ever call me again.
There are other things I could do that I haven't ruled out yet. I have the guys cell phone number. I could call him. I don't know what I'd do if I did. I thought about calling and asking if hes seeing anyone and what her name is. But remember, he does already have a relationship according to my girlfriend. He would have to be a real moron to answer this question to someone he didn't know over the phone since he's cheating too.
I also thought about calling as the boyfriend of my girlfriend and asking questions specifically about her. But I could see a lot of ways this could backfire.
I also have talked to her relative in the nearby city before but not in a long time (not since she moved). I've got her phone number. I thought about calling her with the intent of just being mostly honest and asking questions. Just saying that I know and I'm concerned about this guy, and asking the relative how long my girlfriend is at her house, how long shes with this guy there, if she ever leaves with the guy, etc. Of course she'll stick up for my girlfriend at least a little bit but sometimes comments slip. I actually think this is the avenue I'll persue next. Of course my girlfriend will find out that I called and asked all the questions but I'd rather she found out I'd called her relative than called the actual guy. I think one is more argument provoking than the other.
I think the "we haven't had sex yet" comment was a slip. I don't think she meant to say that much but she was being pressured for answers by me. But since it's such an absurd thing to say (most people definitely wouldn't have added the yet), that's what makes me believe that it MIGHT be honest. But I know I'm just looking for any answers.
I've also considered suggesting couples therapy. Anyone have experience with this?
I've also considered suggesting counseling with her pastor. Now again, I'm not a religious person. I've never been to her church even. But she is. She had been going to church every Sunday. She holds her pastor in very high esteem and has confided in him in the past so I was thinking this might be an interesting approach. Obviously, he is going to have an interest in promoting marriage but there is no way he would recommend two relationships and lying so he would probably be on my side. Now here's an interesting twist: the last month or so she has also stopped going to church citing various reasons (price of gas, oversleeping, etc).
And I've also considered hiring a private investigator. My reasoning is that a lot of our arguing is me trying to find out information. A PI would provide information. But I already know they are spending time together so I'm not sure how much more a PI could provide.
Would love to hear comments on my thoughts above...
Replying to my own post, I've already thought of at least one way the pastor approach could backfire: If he suggested/recommended and pushed abstince prior to marriage. I understand from what I've heard that hes a rather old fashioned pastor and I think she might strongly consider his advice if directed straight to her. The church recommending abstince prior to marriage is an issue thats come up with us a couple times in the past when she has given me her reasons for wanting us to be married.
