but if this is a test ======== I always call my experience a trial by fire. I'm a Christian, and I fully believe somethings in this life, the hard blows, teach us so much and wake people up who otherwhise wouldnt' have learned any other way. I'm not saying anyone deserves this, I mean, this kind of things make us better persons.
Yea, an unforgiving, angrier man would've told the woman to F'off and forget about it -- my H actually told me that had I been the one who would've done all he did, he would've been too angry to forgive me.
I was a nagging wife who after the kids were born, didnt' pay him the attention I should;ve, I would reject him constantly, being too tired from work and kids. I didnt' give him the respect I should've. That, and problems at work brought upon my H a full MLC heaped with depression and agravated by untreated ADHD. He left, got a lawyer, has an on an off with ow. Got in deep dept and drunk, a man who wouldn't even drink wine. Lied 'til he was caught and ended up a big mess.
I held on tight for 8mths, was a listening ear and got him drs when he realized he needed meds for his depression and ADHD. Eventually he realized, no one really cared for him like I did. I was there to confort him and not ask anything of him. I wanted him back despite his getting a L and talking about selling our home. We went to C when he came back, to an angel of a C who helped us big time. My H still felt depressed and couldnt' believed he sank so low (the S, the ow who used him and realized she was being used as a crutch by him and told him off)
It has been a long painful road, but now I can say, that I'm happy with him and he is his old self, we enjoy each other's company and plan for the future, there isnt' that dark cloud in his eyes anymore.
And that's the gist of my story, my very first post dissapeared in the archives! I'm a dinosaur in these boards now, he he
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
I wanted to pop in. I'm still hanging in with my M. I teater quite a bit. Yes, I want to stay, No, I don't want to stay, yes, I would be better off without him, no, I don't want to be alone. It's exhausting. My H had an A, 1 year after we were married, the A lasted a year and we just celebrated our 5th wedding anniversary. We're great friends, but we still have issues. Well, at least I do. I still don't trust him and he still betrays my trust. I guess my point is that even though we're together, we're still not together, not as one. We still have our private sides. We keep our money separate, and we both like it that way. With that being said, I'm glad you have the confidence. I admire that and good for you - taking the high road. I wish I could make my decision, but I take one day at a time and that's my advise to you. Take one day at a time, don't worry about tomorrow because tomorrow will have it's own worries. Keep you're chin up. 50/50 chance is not bad odds.
Thanks Gwen, and good luck to you too. One day at a time.
For me, I'm realizing I'm giving up way too easily. I need to toughen up and keep trying. It's worth it to me. Yes, it would be easier to just get it over with, and when I think about the pain, and the OM/jealousy, and (I hate to say) what I may be missing by sticking with my W when there are probably lot's of women my age who would appreciate a thoughtful kind man, I want to quit.
But then I remember that I do love her. I remember what all I did to lead up to this situation. No one deserves this, but I am at fault too, not just her. I can keep trying (how long, I don't know, but I'm going to try).
I hope you find more peace and happiness soon.
M45, W45,S15, D10, Bomb 10/3/06, Moved back in 11/6/06, finally ILY 9/07 last thread
I have been in a similar situation now for about 5 years. Fortunately, we are all now living together for the last 12 months. However, she has not changed one little bit that I can really tell. Civil, modestly friendly, almost no physical touch and never a kiss or ILY. I have basically come to the conclusion that she will never change and I have stopped trying to work on us. We have stopped counseling because she just didn't seem that interested. I have even asked our counselor to stop seeing her because there is no real progress. (he's very expensive)
I have decided that she probably will never change or be part of the relationship, so now it is up to me to decide what I want to do.
It is simply amazing what we will put up with in our lives. Yes, I could easily divorce...would affect age of retirement, being able to live the last 2 years with my youngest son before he finishes high school, and have to give up a lovely home. Is a relationship that works worth all the pain I would have to go through to get it?? Life is tolerable at this point in time, but I certainly don't have a lover, wife, partner to share it with.
I wonder how others have approached this kind of dilema? Thanks for reading.
Hi NCplayer, I didn't see a link to you posts. I have to tell you, although I feel for you and your sitch, I'm not happy to here about it :-) I don't want to think about my sitch lasting another 4 + years. Although it sounds like you are feeling strong and ready to decide what you want.
It is amazing how much we can put up with, how much we can stand. In this case, do we just write off our needs in this area; the need to have a loving affectionate partner in our lifes, and concentrate on enjoying all the other things life has to offer, like kids, lovely home, etc.?
I think I will want a lover, wife, partner, to share my life with. I hope I have one in my W and she will feel the same about me in the not too distant future (5 years seems like more than I could stand, but a year ago I wouldn't have thought I could have stood what I'm going through now).
Oddly, and sadly, my best friend is going through something kind of similar right now. He solved it by telling her that she can't have it both ways. Either she is with him or not. He moved on. It's still very hard for him, but he made a decision and I think the closure, and clarity he is finding is good. I envy him. But, I'm not ready to give up yet.
Oddly, and sadly, I don't think our sitches are that rare in this country (in the world?). Divorce, breakups, heartache, seem to be very common. My brother's gf of 7 years broke up with him just after saying yes to a marriage proposal. They continued to live together until she and he found new places to live. They were good friends, but he didn't have the benefit of DB and he did many things wrong; mainly begging, pleading and arguing.
So, from my limited anecdotal experience, that is how some have approached this kind of dilema.
How have you managed for 5 years? Did the C help at all? What do you think the problem is? Was it a problem before the 'bomb'? It was in my M. I felt the lack of love and passion for many years before the bomb. I just didn't realize she felt it too.
I don't think I want to settle for a tolerable life. I think I want a great life. I think I can get it. I really hope my W is part of it. A great life can still have lots of pain, but it will be clean, healthy, pain, my pain. And it will have lots of joy too. Hopefully, there will be someone to share it with, all of it. If not, well, I think I can still do it and enjoy it and live it.
Thanks for posting. Best wishes.
M45, W45,S15, D10, Bomb 10/3/06, Moved back in 11/6/06, finally ILY 9/07 last thread
Journaling... My W is back in town for the July 4 holiday. We just put the house on the market, and have already had 2 showings. We are still getting along pretty well. She is still sleeping on the couch, instead of in our bed.
There are some advantages to having the bed to myself. I've been sick this last week, and I don't have to worry that my coughing and snoring are bothering her. It is nice in a way to have your own room.
I've been following the DB coach's advice; flirting, being playful, positive energy - and the hardest part for me - stepping back without turning away. Can't she (my W) at least give me a little more hope? If I were 'dating' her and she were treating me this way, I'd be looking for someone else. I could use a little more positive feedback, a little confirmation that she is interested in me. I say a little more, because there are signs that she is interested and positive, they just seem very small to me and I feel I might be misinterpreting her being 'nice' and a 'friend' as interest in our M.
It's hard to balance these motives; being interested in her, pursuing her in a way, flirting with her, dating her in a way, and detaching at the same time; backing away (giving her space, ball in her court) and not turning my back (really giving her space, and moving on with my life).
Meanwhile, I'm doing somethings I know I shouldn't do. I'm checking out dating sites, I'm flirting with an ex-coworker, I'm flirting with an old college girlfriend who recently found me and contacted me. None of these things have crossed THE line, although I know I've crossed A line or two. It helps knowing that someone may be interested in me.
If my W said it's over, let's divorce, it could have the affect of stopping my flirting. I'd be free to really be alone, live alone, really concentrate on me (and the kids; although my son is pretty self contained these days, and my daughter will be with my W).
And of course, there is always jealousy of the OM. I don't blame her for still thinking of him. It would be easier for me though if I could put it behind me. As long as we aren't really talking about it, and not really 'married', he does cross my mind. If we were divorced, I think it would be easier to put it behind me. If she would say ILY,it would be easier to put it behind me.
And, it is really going to hurt when I have to send my daughter to AR. I will really miss her. It hurts like hell thinking about it. As my daughter said though, when I said I was going to miss her, I don't have to miss her now.
What am I suppossed to feel? What am I suppossed to do? If I'm going against my instincts (which tell me to end it, move on, or be angry, or have R talks all day)then what do I follow?
this is Fun. Everyone should have to go through this. It's only fair.
Having just written that, I know there are many out there who would love to be in my sitch. There is much worse that could be happening. I'll be thankful for what I have.
M45, W45,S15, D10, Bomb 10/3/06, Moved back in 11/6/06, finally ILY 9/07 last thread
Journaling... Not much has changed. I seem to repeat myself a lot. Patience is still the key word. Sometimes I get depressed and think there is no hope and I just wish she would let me go completely so I could find some closure, resolution, and move on with my life. Sometimes I feel optimistic and think any minute now she will say ILY, or healthier yet, I realize we are peicing, she did come back, and we are going to be OK, I'm going to be OK, and I don't need the ILY.
Fate is playing with me a little. Having my old college girlfriend contact me, have lunch with me, confess how much she still really likes me and if she weren't married she would want to be with me... was thrilling, ego boosting, and cruel. I can't mess up the last chance I have with my W, and I can't mess up her M, however faulty she may think it is. The thought that has kept me on the high road has been thinking about how I would hurt her husband if I crossed the line with my old GF. I know how I felt. I couldn't do that to him. (sometimes I think I could. I have to really watch myself.)
So, I'm still waiting. My friend helped my by saying that sometimes choosing not to act (not to initiate R talks, not to demand she make up her mind, not to "romance" her, etc) is an action. I'm not being passive and waiting for others to decide my fate. I'm actively deciding Not to Act. I know that he is right, because I can be so exhausted by Not acting that it must be an active effort.
Here are the positives (just a reminder of our story so far, she is living in Arkansas, I'm in Colorado. Our tentative plan is that I will join her there after my son graduates HS. My daughter will join her at the end of the summer): 1. she has called me an initiated nice, friendly conversations. 2. she has bought me a couple of small gifts 3. she has been appreciative of what I've done for her, and the small gifts I've given her. 4. She actually remembers our anniversary, and we are planning to do something on it (although with kids,and not romantic) 5. she left the OM (as far as I know. Always a little, evil, lingering doubt in my mind but I can't ask any more). 6. she has said she is not going to date and considers herself married. I guess I could go on. Sometimes thinking of the positives brings me down. If things are going well, why doesn't she just decide she wants to be with me and tell me? Patience. Living in Limbo is very hard, but I'm doing it, and I can keep doing it. Who knows how long I can keep this up? Who knows if 2 years of separation will kill whatever chance we have or not. I can only do my best, try to stick to the high road, and hope.
Keep on trucking.
M45, W45,S15, D10, Bomb 10/3/06, Moved back in 11/6/06, finally ILY 9/07 last thread
OK, If anyone is still listening, I could use little support.
I did what I thought would be a good Idea. I invited my wife to a phone date (she's in Arkansas now, I'm in Colorado). She accepted. I purposefully didn't plan too much to say or what topics, but I knew I would stay away from R talk and stay positive. I was hoping to focus on her, and what she is doing. I wanted to be a good listener, and be as good of a 'date' as I could be over the phone, to a women who won't or can't say ILY. I also set a time limit of about 15 minutes.
Trying to be totally objective, I think it went pretty well. Yes, I wanted her to say she missed me, like I miss her - but she didn't. Yes, I wanted to feel or hear some more love - but didn't (unless it was so small and subtle that an objective person would have said it didn't exist, only a hopeful one like me would see anything in it.).
But when we were done, and I hung up, I felt terrible. If I didn't have to keep a brave face in front of my kids, I would have gone to bed and cried.
If she doesn't love me, can't she just let me go? It would be extremely painful if she said she didn't want me, but then at least I'd know, and I could move on. Why is she teasing me like this? Why is she stringing me along?
Part of my brain says it's because it's not over yet, that there is still a chance. What a lot of pressure that is! There is still a chance if I don't mess it up! I can't win, but I can sure lose. Only she can win. She gets to choose.
Fock it. I'm still in the game. I'll keep playing. But to h@ll with it. Damn her, damn this whole situation.
damn
M45, W45,S15, D10, Bomb 10/3/06, Moved back in 11/6/06, finally ILY 9/07 last thread
