NikkiB #18

[S.T. _I Made It!]

oh, and I would defnitely keep contributing on the house and NOT move out. I don't know how Cali works, but in OK, whatever we got after the M, we split 50.50 period. And you know what, you deserve it no matter how much you put into the house. Getting a D was definitely not your choice and you have done a great amount to save your M, so don't let H make you feel guilty about any money issues. That's his problem.

[JAK58]

Nikki,

ST is right you need to think of what you need and want not what you think you should do as it just makes it easier for H to continue this behavior. You are really doing all you can do. At least it seems it from what im'e reading.

I have been posting still in the Infidelity Forum. I have not felt comfortable enough yet to post here. But H has been doing well so far.

JAK

[forever21]

Hey Nikki!

Thinking about you. Keep up the work. I think OT makes a great point about doing what is good for YOU, without worrying about your H or M. For someone like you who truly values their M it's easy to do things that are not going to really help DB. I know, I've done 'em and still find myself doing them from time to time... and I'm not even having to try to live with my H, don't even have to talk to him that often.

It might help you to get really clear on what YOU want. This was where I had one of my biggest breakthroughs, although it was hard work and took me weeks. My C had given me that as homework. I think what Michele teaches in Chapter 3 of DR is the same thing.

What do YOU want?

I challenge you to put the focus back on yourself. YOU deserve to do this for you. You deserve to love yourself. Even your M deserves this. Take great care of yourself. Don't worry about your H right now. He's a big boy, he can take care of himself.

[S.T. _I Made It!]

another food for thought to make you more confused.

I remember when my H, in the beginning of A b4 he told me he wanted a D, he was contacting OW a lot and I couldn't take the rollercoaster at the time, (this was before reading DR) and my mom said my dad did the same thing and she had to kick him out to keep her sanity.

Well, that's exactly what I did. I told H that since he cannot stop contact with OW that maybe it would be better if he moved out. Well, the next day was when I talked to a great christian friend and she asked me what my vision was. I said, well, for my H to be M to me. And she said, then your going to bite your tongue and be the best W and mother that you can be. I'm like what? I asked her about what I told him the day before and she said, well, if he moves out who will be influencing him. and if he stays home, who will be? This was all in a christian perspective mind you, but I believe it relates all the same.

So by me pushing him out the door, I was allowing him to be around worldly influence...staying at his single buddy's house who parties every weekend, or staying at our house with me GALing and all that and giving him my influence.

So after that discussion, I decided that I did allow my mom to help make my decision and that I would no longer talk to any of my family from then on while I tried to save my M. I also told H that I was wrong in trying to push him out of our lives sooner than need be and that we would love to have him in our home if he could keep all contact outside the home. As far as I could tell, he did keep it all outside. It did continue, A LOT, but I really believe it did allow me to DB and influence him in a good way and lead him to where he is now.

Now of course this might not be the best thing for you Nikki. I just want you to see my example. Of course, my own boundary was to keep contact outside the house. I knew that I could not keep him from it, so I made the decision to live with the evil as long as it didn't happen in my home. I had faith that in the end it would be done and it was. I am also very thankful that I had the strength to do that (all from God, let me tell you) because it was my H who stopped contact, not me, and not her, and not his mother (who definitely told him more than once). But this definitely has to be a choice for you that you can handle. Try not to let anyone else make this decision for you. Maybe start smaller, like him sleeping in another room, instead of bigger, like moving out, because if you end up regretting it, then it won't be as big of a regret, you know what I mean?

okay, hope your having a good week with NO bad dreams. Think as many positive thoughts during the day as possible. And did you ever change your dreams as a kid? I used to do that all the time, I used to be able to switch my dreams around and make the bad people fly out the window or something. so make those bad dreams into good dreams!

[Confident_Me]

another food for thought to make you more confused.

I remember when my H, in the beginning of A b4 he told me he wanted a D, he was contacting OW a lot and I couldn't take the rollercoaster at the time, (this was before reading DR) and my mom said my dad did the same thing and she had to kick him out to keep her sanity.

Well, that's exactly what I did. I told H that since he cannot stop contact with OW that maybe it would be better if he moved out. Well, the next day was when I talked to a great christian friend and she asked me what my vision was. I said, well, for my H to be M to me. And she said, then your going to bite your tongue and be the best W and mother that you can be. I'm like what? I asked her about what I told him the day before and she said, well, if he moves out who will be influencing him. and if he stays home, who will be? This was all in a christian perspective mind you, but I believe it relates all the same.

So by me pushing him out the door, I was allowing him to be around worldly influence...staying at his single buddy's house who parties every weekend, or staying at our house with me GALing and all that and giving him my influence.

So after that discussion, I decided that I did allow my mom to help make my decision and that I would no longer talk to any of my family from then on while I tried to save my M. I also told H that I was wrong in trying to push him out of our lives sooner than need be and that we would love to have him in our home if he could keep all contact outside the home. As far as I could tell, he did keep it all outside. It did continue, A LOT, but I really believe it did allow me to DB and influence him in a good way and lead him to where he is now.

Now of course this might not be the best thing for you Nikki. I just want you to see my example. Of course, my own boundary was to keep contact outside the house. I knew that I could not keep him from it, so I made the decision to live with the evil as long as it didn't happen in my home. I had faith that in the end it would be done and it was. I am also very thankful that I had the strength to do that (all from God, let me tell you) because it was my H who stopped contact, not me, and not her, and not his mother (who definitely told him more than once). But this definitely has to be a choice for you that you can handle. Try not to let anyone else make this decision for you. Maybe start smaller, like him sleeping in another room, instead of bigger, like moving out, because if you end up regretting it, then it won't be as big of a regret, you know what I mean?

okay, hope your having a good week with NO bad dreams. Think as many positive thoughts during the day as possible. And did you ever change your dreams as a kid? I used to do that all the time, I used to be able to switch my dreams around and make the bad people fly out the window or something. so make those bad dreams into good dreams!

Nicely said - I would humbly concur & bow to your superior experience in this matter

[S.T. _I Made It!]

your so funny CM! thanks

[NikB]

Thanks everyone for your posts. I'll reply first then do some journaling and I have some questions I'm hoping for some feedback on.

ST
Yeah... I am really struggling with knowing what I need/want to do right now. I'm still doing a lot of thinking about it, but nothing is clicking yet. I kind of agree with Ellie that the separate bedroom thing isn't that great an idea. I think if I make a "small" step as opposed to a big one, it will be something like staying with someone for awhile (or maybe I can house-sit for awhile... I found out a neighbor may need a housesitter for a week, for example).

I completely get your point about influence. Unfortunately I think he's getting a whole day of bad influence every single day at work, between OW and a few of his young, single, party-all-the-time male coworkers. I do think it's a good point though. Definitely part of the decision.

I still need to talk to a L but I think Cali has very similar laws, basically everything's 50/50. You're right I shouldn't let him make me feel guilty, though. I need to figure out how to process those kinds of comments without feeling guilty. (I know that's my thing to figure out).

haha it's funny you said that about the nightmares, I used to do that too - wake up and try to change the ending. It worked sometimes.

I'm not that proud of it but I've just been taking Benadryl to sleep. It knocks me out enough that I don't HAVE dreams, so at least I'm not afraid to go to sleep. I can't keep doing it, but it's helped the last couple of nights.

jak
Thanks for the support and reply. I'll try and stop by your thread soon too.

CM
Thanks for the support.

f21
Thanks so much. You're right, it's sure not easy to focus on this. I am so unclear on what I really want that I don't even know where to start. It's a very weird feeling. I know I need to work on it, though. What do I want? I don't even know! So gotta start there.

------------
On to some journaling...

I think it's interesting that the thing I've struggled with the most is the point OT made (which was a totally valid point, OT). I had not really looked from an outside perspective at how my actions appeared and the message they sent to H (and to myself, really). I thought I was past some of that low self-esteem, lack of self-respect. I really did, but reading it that way made me realize I'm not past it at all. Time to get back to working on fixing those things. I need to love and respect myself, first and foremost. How to do that? Still figuring it out. But I recognize a lot more clearly now that it's a huge need.

I had a lot of fun yesterday - had a great lunch with a friend I met via meetup and it turned out she works near me. Had dinner with another friend. We went to an introductory dinner for a group that's somewhat similar to meetup. There were 4 of us who went together and another 40 or so people at the dinner. It was lots of fun, and I look forward to going to more events with this group. Definitely a good GALing day!

Kind of funny when I got home, H was out front working in his cutoff shorts and a greasy t-shirt (working on his car so it was "appropriate" clothes). Well, he's never met this friend just because the opportunity's never come up - and last night another friend who was driving was in a hurry so she just dropped me off and they left, so H still didn't meet them. H was really weird about it, kept asking me "So did I embarass you in front of your friends?" several times throughout the night. But the tone was weird - wasn't an "Oh I hope I didn't embarass you" tone, more like an "I hope I did embarass you". I dunno.. trying not to over analyze it and definitely trying not to mind-read, it just really struck me. Maybe because I'd been thinking about the respect thing all day.

I did chores and stuff in the house while H was outside, he asked me to join him a few times but I just didn't want to so I kept doing my thing. It's a small thing but still, yay me...

I am proud of myself today, I finally got the IC scheduled. Her first available appointment wasn't until 8/13, but at least it's something. In the meantime I'll get the boundary book, and try to get clearer on what exactly my IC goals are.

The MC and I are playing phone tag but I left a more detailed message with what time we can get there after work and asking her to just call me back with a date and time, instead of trying to catch each other to schedule. Hopefully that will work.

I also called the L service.. but panicked and hung up. Damn it. I found out I can get unlimited phone help for no fee, and have 30 hours of "face time" per year with an L if I need it. After giving my story I was expecting to make an appointment but then she said "Oh no, I can put you straight through to one of our phone attorneys" - eek! I wasn't ready for that so as I said, I thanked her quickly but panicked and hung up.

-------------------------------------

Which leads me to my questions. Can you guys/gals help me get clear on everything I need to ask the L about? Here's what I planned so far:

Basic history:
- Bought house together approx 7.5 years ago. (both names on title and mortgage)
- House appreciated significantly. Now worth approx. 3x what we paid for it. Some due to the market, and some due to "sweat equity." [MC mentioned that H may fight about this saying he did most of the work, but to remember that I supported him, ran to the hardware store, cooked dinner for the guys while they worked.. so I contributed also]
- Married approx 5.5 years ago.
- No kids.
- H salary $X, my salary $Y. My salary is approx 60% of H's.
- Approx equal amounts saved in each of our 401k accounts
- Most non-retirement investments/savings is in my name or joint accounts. H makes most of the house payment, in trade for me making most of the contributions to savings. [this is what we agreed to years ago and H tried to say wasn't true in MC, so this is a potential conflict point too]
- Only debts are my car, and the mortgage.
- H has a lot of assets in vehicles - 2 race cars, 2 classic cars, plus his truck. All but 1 obtained after we married.
- We keep separate checking accounts but we're joint owners on each others' accounts

Is there anything else they'd need to know that I should be prepared to give?

My concerns/questions:
- What are my rights in terms of the home equity?
- What about other significant property (i.e. the value of the cars, investments/non-retirement savings)?
- Anything I need to know about the debt on my car? It's our only debt other than the mortgage.
- Since our 401ks are roughly equal would we each be able to keep our own?
- Should I continue to contribute to my 401k right now? (I think yes as we have a company match but want to make sure)
- Would I be likely to get any spousal support? How much, and for how long?
- Does my partial disability have any impact on anything?
- How do I make sure to protect my rights, especially regarding the house? What do I need to do, or avoid doing?
- If one of us moves out, what are rules on house payments, utilities, etc.?
- What's the difference in CA between a sep and a D?
- H took care of me after I broke my leg. He was able to work during all but 5 weeks of that time. During those weeks he received income from the state family care plan (approx 50% of normal pay). I did not work for those months but my disability pay covered my portion of all the bills. Does this impact anything?

... I'm sure they get these calls all the time and will have more info for me anyway, but any thoughts on things I missed or overlooked??

Thanks all. And so I don't give the wrong impression - I'm not pursuing anything legally, just finding out the rights and rules.

[NikB]

sheesh that was a long post - sorry, thanks for anyone who reads through it all! If you don't make it through the whole thing and just have L advice for me, can you read the last bulleted part? Thanks!!!

[S.T. _I Made It!]

well, legally, I'm thinking most of it won't matter. In OK and I think it's the same in many states, whatever comes after you are M is 50/50 period. If it was before, then I think you each keep what was yours. the 401K would seem a little different though.

I'm thinking that those are all good questions and info for the L. Just tell them that your sitch financially, and that you are not wanting a D, but your H may end up filing for it and you want to protect yourself in case that happens. What should you do, and what should you not do? for instance move out of the house. I'm thinking would be a bad move for you. Except the house sitting, that would be a great excuse to step away for a little while without seeming strange.

Hey, don't worry about H's weird comments. He seems to always say weird things with an underlying meaning. He really seems to be acting like a child, and children are so unpredictable and can drive you crazy, so don't let him.

hey, just curious, did you make any comment about his outfit washin the car? like, whoo hoo aren't you looking hot-n-sexy today... or just bein playful...or you may just not be feeling up to that kinda stuff right now though.

hey, don't feel bad about the benedryl. at least it's helping you sleep. I'd rather you have sleep than not. Although I'd really love to give you a case of my stuff instead though!

have some good sleep tonight and take care.

[kml]

Nikki -
As i understand it, your sitch would be fairly simple by CA community property laws. Since you bought the house together and both names are on the title, all the equity in that would be joint property. (With the possible exception of down payment money if that was brought into the marriage by one partner and kept separate). All other assets bought since the marriage like cars, etc. would also be joint property (unless bought with an inheritance that was kept separate from joint marital funds). Same for savings etc.

Since you're both employed and there's no kids, I don't know if you would qualify for any alimony. Maybe the disability would help some with that. Dust in the Wind would be up on that part of the law.

Don't let him guilt you out of your fair share, either, if it comes to that. Community property laws recognize that a marriage is a joint venture, and that both parties contribute in ways tangible and intangible to the success of that enterprise. (For instance, I "mommy tracked" my career so that my kids could have better parenting and that also freed my H to pursue his career in a more competitive way. OF COURSE I'm entitled to half if he leaves!!!! Just based on loads of laundry completed alone!! )

Do you think he was funny about your friends dropping you off because he thought it might be a guy????

Ellie