well, like many guys here I was neglecting my wife's needs (didn't even see them I was so selfish) and then when the fighting started because she was bored out of her mind, it got bad fast and she jumped ship!
I'm working hard on myself and I mean WORKING. I'm not just aware, I'm making it who I am. So, I've bought in to needing to change, it's just a day late and a dollar short for my wife. That's why the quote I posted hits home so much for me. I don't now why she's so convinced that someone else will do a better job of meeting her needs than me, the NEW me. But, not for me to know I guess. So, I don't worry about it.
We can talk ourselves into defeat or we can talk ourselves into victory - we are creatures of our thinking.
3/31/07 - Hit with a brick, leaving the dent there...
I have been busy GAL and haven't been able to post. I believe in my last post that I informed everyone that I suggested counseling to my W telling her that she has nothing to lose. She was being stubborn and said that she will only after the D process has started. I asked my to go at least 3 times and then she'll have a better idea if this is what she wants. My W texted me two times on Tuesday night asking for our previous counselor's telephone number. I was out with friends and I didn't text her back right away. When I was leaving, I sent my W the counselor's number. My W then texted me back that since we are going to counseling for D3 that our previous counselor doesn't do the type of counseling that we need. Whatever that is. Our previous counselor was a solution focused counselor. My W was given another counselor to contact and she texted me asking if I wanted her to call this other counselor. I wrote back the next morning for her to call this counselor. I haven't heard anything else about this. I am just going to allow her to let me know what is going on. No pressure. She seems to want to set up the counseling. I don't have a problem with that. W has seemed pretty friendly the last few days. She just seems to have her moments when she seems really nice and when R talk is brought up, she gets really upset and talks about the past. I will not have any more R talk unless she brings it up. W did text me today telling me about a sale going on at a department store for my new place. I will see her tomorrow and I am sure everything will be smooth without any problems.
OneWish's Story
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Have you thought about just letting the R talk totally rest?
This is something I am going to work on with my W. The only R talks we had prior to the recent fiasco, she initiated and they never turned out well. It seems they were always an attempt at letting me know that although we were getting along, intimate, hanging out with each other and going out...., nothing in her had changed towards me, she still wanted a D eventually.
Whatever. Nothing they say so why have the conversation?
My approach now will be, "I'm not really ready to talk about this right now". I refuse to have any more R talks until I know things are moving in the direction I want to go. I won't ask a question I don't want to hear the answer to, nor will I sit through a conversation I don't want to have.
This is a huge 180 for me. Historically I have initiated or participated in R talk.
Two things: 1) R talks suck the life out of me. I don't need to hear how much she sees the changes, how she knows I'm a great guy, attractive, good father, solid earner, BUT, her feelings just aren't changed. It's like getting punched in the gut, no thanks. 2) It just reinforces her belief in everything she is saying. It's like some long winded I want a D affirmation or something. Sorry, I won't help you repeat your daily D affirmation.
I'll talk about the kids, music, movies, the house, even cutting the grass but I have no desire to discuss the R. I'm living in it, why do I really need a temp check?
You know dude, one thing my W said to me a few days ago during a heated R exchange. I told her I didn't see how refusing to at least try MC or retro-vi was something her conscience could deal with when she looks back on this time. W said to me, "and how do you think that any of this stuff, wondering about my plans, asking me what I'm going to do, any of it is bringing me any closer to you, I can't tell you how pushed away I'm feeling right now".
I shutup right away. Maybe the damage is done, but this I know for sure, any R talk, no matter who initiates is a negative.
Why is that? Why is it that any talk of the relationship PUSHES them further away? I know this is my POV and I'm not expecting her to abide by it, but if you have a problem, how do you solve it by running away and not talking about it? OK, she's hurt, VERY HURT, and I caused a lot of it. I'm taking my reponsibility, I'm being a man about it. I'm not angry, I'm not blaming her, I simply think being together JUST a little bit can help smootht things over, OVER TIME. I'm not expecting an overnight miracle, I know there is work to do. What is it in the WAS that doesn't allow them to want to work on things? Is it that they think they already did? Even though there wasn't a team effort? Even though the decision to D was unilateral? What is there to lose in talking things over for a while, letting things settle, getting over the anger and pain, helping each other rather than letting the pain fester?
I know there may not be an answer to all these, and it's different for all WAS's perhaps, at least in level of magnitude. I'd just like to better understand my wife and she won't share much so I'm looking for clarification elsewhere right now. Maybe one of these days she'll let me in...
We can talk ourselves into defeat or we can talk ourselves into victory - we are creatures of our thinking.
3/31/07 - Hit with a brick, leaving the dent there...
Why is that? Why is it that any talk of the relationship PUSHES them further away? I know this is my POV and I'm not expecting her to abide by it, but if you have a problem, how do you solve it by running away and not talking about it? OK, she's hurt, VERY HURT, and I caused a lot of it. I'm taking my reponsibility, I'm being a man about it. I'm not angry, I'm not blaming her, I simply think being together JUST a little bit can help smootht things over, OVER TIME. I'm not expecting an overnight miracle, I know there is work to do. What is it in the WAS that doesn't allow them to want to work on things? Is it that they think they already did? Even though there wasn't a team effort? Even though the decision to D was unilateral? What is there to lose in talking things over for a while, letting things settle, getting over the anger and pain, helping each other rather than letting the pain fester?
I know there may not be an answer to all these, and it's different for all WAS's perhaps, at least in level of magnitude. I'd just like to better understand my wife and she won't share much so I'm looking for clarification elsewhere right now. Maybe one of these days she'll let me in...
Here is how my counselor described it. Think of it as a bill collector. The collector keeps calling, but you don't have any money. Maybe some day you will, but right now, talking to the collector just reminds you how much your just not making it right now. You tell the collector, hey, I have no money, and I don't know when I will, I'll let you know when I do. The collector calls the next day, several times a day.
Do you want to talk to the collector? Hell no. You just told that guy that you can't do anything right now. But no, he is going to call anyway as if you can make money magically appear. All that is happening now is you are getting frustrated and pissed off. The collector is just doing his job, it is your debt, but there is nothing you can do about it right now. You might be trying, and you might not. One thing is for sure, you have nothing to say that the collector wants to hear. The collector is going to keep offering alternatives, pay this or pay that. But you can't. So this just keeps adding to your guilt, every time you talk to the collector, it just makes you feel worse because you can't give the collector what he wants right now, and maybe never will be able to.
After while what happens?
You start avoiding his calls. Maybe you change your number. Maybe you let it go to voicemail. Maybe if you answer, you just say what he wants to hear so he will leave you alone.
Eventually, if the pressure is too great, you declare bankruptcy. You don't want to, but it's a way of escape at least from this pressure. Now the collector can't call any longer. The problems still exist but at least there is some temporary relief.
T - Great analogy thnx. Like everyone keeps telling us just give it time and space. We have no control or say over it so whats the point? I too have not had any luck with the R talk. The saying about not believeing 100% of what they say and 50% of action goes both ways. When we do talk about the R. which we have only done 4 times over the last 5 months all I focus on now is validating everything she says. At first I tried to defend myself but then I realized I was just retaking control of the conversation. Which is the opp. of my 180 on control Last week I just told her that like I now use as my mantra "You do whatever you need to do. Do whatever is going to make you happy." As hard as that is they are going to do that anyway. Especially now since they are in so much pain. All we can do is Listen, Mirror, Validate, and Empathize. Going back to our R talk last week. The WAW said something like "I just cant understand how you can tell someone that you love them with so much hate in your eyes". In retrospect, instead of just validating with "wow that must have been very difficult for you. I can understand why you felt that way". I instead replied "why did you think that? I never hated you for a second." Wham! took back control and did not validate how she felt. Stupid Stupid Stupid!!! But, at least now I am ready for the next opportunity. Like everyone says. Part of Dbing is figuring out what works and what doesnt.
Last week I just told her that like I now use as my mantra 