Phoenix, it's the longest post I've ever seen from you!
Your very first line -
Quote:
Well here's where I think it all stands.
It is what you think, it is not what you know.
What do you mean?
Quote:
W wants out of her problems without having to take full responsibility for them.
? She wants out of the M? or can that mean she can/will stay in the M but doesn't want to account for her past actions?
Sometimes I get that impression about H, that if we could just wave a wand and presto! all his stuff would be back and he would never have to be accountable for his past actions and I could truly forgive and forget...we could make a fresh start, we could find or acknowledge our love again. That's just me though, H may have a whole different perspective.
What occured to spark this rant? not that it is really a rant, I think it is airing your sentiments. Are you still not sleeping? FWIW, I think you were seeing good signs while you and W have been going to your sessions, your hopes rose, your expectations rose, and it is hard to keep your finger off the fast forward button. Relax, refocus, GAL. You are still on the ride. Don't let go yet.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
I think yesterday was a "I'm so sick and tired of waiting" day. For me, it was one of those days where you get sick and tired of dealing with what you accept day in and out. You want to scream, shake up the house and clean it from top to bottom. I was so close to just spouting off at W and saying, let's quit piddling around and get down to business. But common sense prevailed and the evening went as well as possible.
In answer to you question, W never can see why she "has to put up with so much". Why can't she just have things the way she wants things? Why does her life have to be so tough? I'm not saying that she doesn't have her challenges, but some, as you can imagine are brought on by her own actions. She kind of is thinking perhaps it's time to "dump off" some of the problems and just try to get a fresh start (with a new set of problems).
Back when we were attending C, she would just get exasperated with what the C were saying and how things were progressing in our sessions. The C would call things as they would see it, which was not what W wanted to hear. She wanted to hear, "it's done, pack it in". W really kind of knew what her issues were, but there just wasn't the clean way out she was hoping for.
Anyhow, I can see a spiral in my mood due to this, so I will go back to as if. I will take the positive I see and play with that. If things go south, then I'll play that when it occurs. Kind of had higher views/expectations of how this would all go, but it is what it is.
As I think I have said a long time ago ... your W has a somewhat martyr type personality. It's never her fault, she is always right, and it's "poor me, poor me". I know she must have good points too, otherwise you wouldn't have married her, but she has overshadowed them with this self-pitying attitude. Man, she really needs to lighten up. Life is too short.
I have to say that maybe just a little of her attitude has rubbed off onto you, hence the expectations of how it should be? Maybe, you should've given her an example of how you are feeling, like how she should grow up and act her age (and stop being such a martyr ... it's not like anyone forced her into this life and the choices she made), instead of always being the good guy, keeping silent. Maybe she needs some home truths, even though she will just feel everyone is against her.
Ugh! I'm sorry, Phoenix, I don't mean to be so harsh. I guess she's not going to change until she sees the reality of her actions, behaviour, and attitude, and actually is sorry, and wants to change.
Take care.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
Yes your right, but of course I'm not the one to point it out to her. Somehow I figure it wouldn't go over well. I try to get a dear friend to "help her figure things out". However, I don't try to tell her what to say, she is quite knowledgeable of the whole scenario(has walk in these shoes before W did). From what I can tell the friend was quite direct. The question is, was it enough?
I hope W figures things out and changes before she put the kids and I through real trials. Personally I don't know how I would respond if we were to go half way down that path and then have her turn back towards us. Talk about trust and hurt issues.
I know it's so frustrating to be married to someone who has no concept of self-examination/honesty/responsibility. Especially when in all reality, we've done a lot of changing and growing...if they're not doing the same, it creates a divide.
If I remember right, Michele mentions in DR that many conflicts in marriage are not resolvable--it's just the nature of relationships between individuals. We don't see things through the same set of eyes.
I know I've experienced this vividly in the past few weeks too, and though I don't have any answers (wish I had a magic "see things my way" button to press), I think it's just one of the things we have to learn to reconcile.
I'm not saying to accept destructive behavior...but we do have the choice to accept our spouses' personal journeys as part of everything we signed on for in the whole marriage ball-of-wax.
I'm not sure I'm making sense to myself right now, so if this doesn't help...just disregard.
Not yet on the book. The only decent book store here in town is way over on the other side. I have three books on my list, I'll probably pick up this one and SSM for now. For some reason I have really held off on SSM, but I think it might be time. There seems to be something not addressed yet and these two books might have it.
As for your other observations, there might be some truth there. I have felt that I have been trying to grow mentally and spiritually over the years. W has put very little into the spiritual side of things, partially I feel due to disharmony. I think you know what I mean. Teachings one way, W wants to go another. My goal was not to grow away from her, just to grow in the direction that I should and she would follow. But I think there is a humility issue there. But I guess we all have this issue to some extent.
On a positive note, interaction with W seems to be getting better, doing more things together, sometime W suggesting activity. Some good txt msgs from W this morning. For my own sanity I will focus on the positive and not the negative. If the negative comes I will deal with it then, not over analyze it now.
Hope you can follow this, just working through some of my thoughts here on the thread.
Eh, you make perfect sense to me, because I think and feel the same way often. I think we see progress and ramp up our expectations...only to see that reality isn't quite measuring up, and that's frustrating.
For me, reality is that H is here now, but someday he can easily turn away again. So do I throw my hands in the air and give up? Or do I just keep walking the path I'm on, finding my happiness in myself and trusting that I'll end up in a better place no matter what?
Expectations, GAL...words we've used a lot, but just as vital in piecing (if not more) as they were in crisis. And truly important to keep working on. Forever. There is no arriving.
Forget the bookstore--amazon.com is at your fingertips.
I keep most of my R books under the radar so W can't say I'm forcing her in any direction. For that reason I go to the bookstore and pay cash. That way the lessons learned are taking affect long before she knows I have the book. A mistake made early in the DB process taught me that. Plus you can imagine how SSM would go over right now.
Right now I wish Sam Kinneson was still around, he would have made a great marriage counselor. Would have loved to see him handle half of the near/WAS around this web site. I would have paid to see that one. (Same Kinneson was the comedian that wore a beret and was always screaming about not doing the blatantly dumb things). Definitely not an Oprah moment.
As I was driving last night it dawned on me that considering the positives that have been going on, I don't know how W can justify D. In a lot of ways I think she has this idea/vision in her mind and no matter what, rational or not, she's holding on to it for dear life. Even when veterans of this D thing tell her to do otherwise, she is still focused on this idea. I have seen and dealt with so many children of D that I don't know how anyone could do that to their kids. When I was young I told myself I would never do that to my kids, but I guess I can't make decisions for W.
This D thing is such a plague that I want nothing to do with. Our HR manager spends most of her time dealing with employees who have child support, benefit coverage, spousal support.....of those who are D. Even at church activities, people trying to make things better for those children of D. I guess I know that I am doing what I can, W will have to answer for her own actions.
So I guess I'm getting a little tired of having this avalanche hanging over my head. Maybe today I'll get my vent over with and get down off my soap box. I hope the rest of you have some positive to share, I could use it.
