H coming today, what do I do when he asks how I am

[jackw]

Morgan,

I wanted to drop you an e-mail, not sure if you have one you can use, but if so e-mail me at [e-mail].

Thanks

Jack

[MikeinMidland2]

I never want to be right about this kind of stuff. I always think of the most selfish, self-centered, jerky thing, and assume the WAS will think that way. Then I am glad to be wrong.

You missed my point about him always taking vacation on your anniv. He took off the first year because it was your anniv. Maybe he even thought of it himself. After that he took off because you had a good time the first year, and so a tradition was born.

Now he does not want to celebrate your anniversary because he does not want to honor your marriage. How can he, after all he has done to ruin it? He is at least showing a little integrity by not trying to pretend everything is normal for one day a year.

Figure out which days you need him to watch the kids. Ask him to put in for vacation for those days. You don't have to tell him why those days--he isn't stupid. Tell him you're going to Vegas if you want, or not. If it comes down to it and he wants to come along, I'm sure your MIL will be thrilled to watch the little ones for the 2 of you. If not, you'll be in Vegas and he will be with his little ones at his mom's (not with OW) on your anniv. I'd love to know what he thinks about that day.

[SallyM]

NH, I am constantly amazed. I don't even know who this person is sometimes. and we weren't just married, we were best friends...not just on my end, either. I am so shocked still. I mean, he didn't even let me know there were problems.

[SallyM]

jack, I sent you an e-mail.

mike, okay, I see what you were saying. and you are right about him probably not wanting to celebrate a marriage he no longer cares anything about. the only reason I even say probably, is the man is also the biggest narcisist I know, and life is all about what sounds good at times.

example, I found out on march 19 about the affair. my 40th was the end of april. we had planned to do something special, go someplace special. finally, after realizing that he wasn't ending the affair, I got myself together and planned a trip to visit a friend in florida over my birthday. when I told him about it, he asked if he could come. and yes, I'm serious. and no, we were not in a good place when he asked.

anyway, I'm going to go ahead and make my plans. I did respond...said:

"thanks. nothing definite, will let you know. just let me know any other weeks that might have a conflict."

so I kept it short. and will be upbeat and busy when he gets here today to see the kids. in fact, think I'm going to head to the gym as soon as he gets here. and won't mention our anniversary at all. it sucks, though. I just still can't believe the man I married, the man I chose to spend my life with, the man who always treated me like gold, has turned into the man he is now.

[MikeinMidland2]

So, did you take him to Florida? If so, you have a model for what the October trip would be like if he decided to come along. Except you guys weren't separated then. Now he would have a bit of trouble explaining to OW why he was going out of town with you.

Would you really want him to go with you, spend time with you, if it was only because it was a special trip?

In any case, that is 3 months from now--way too early to make definite plans with him. Who knows what will happen in the meantime. I agree you should not mention any more until you need him to put in for vacation.

[25yearsmlc]

Morgan,

the guys are right, it IS pursuing and you know that is not going to go your way even if there is a chance. See, IF there is a chance of getting back together I cannot imagine it'd be b/ you chased him, or frequently remind him that you are STILL HERE...STILL WILLING TO "WORK" ON THE M, STILL....whatever....he knows that.

The things he needs to do are to let the A run its' course, to allow fond and loving memories of your M and your friendship resurface, which he can ONLY do if he does not feel pressured to choose NOW...and pursuing is a form of pressure...

IF your M and friendship was all that you believe it was, (and you are likely to be right) then in time he will remember that...UNLESS you fill the time between now and then, with NEW memories of painful experiences, guilt inducements--which will backfire anyhow--your anger--which will let him off the hook b/c if you are a bitch to him, he is RIGHT to have left, and who cares why you were bitching at him or whether he deserves it, b/c he'll hate the feeling and that will dictate what he does...
So to allow your past to resurface, LOSE THE ANGER in front of him at least. Besides, and this is crucial for you to understand, the anger will consume YOU and maybe your children....don't let his stupid choices ruin your life or theirs....

You also need to keep up the 180's. And stay positive in front of him. It cannot hurt. Changing YOU for YOU is a task we are all facing really. The WAS DO notice and they notice more than you realize and sometimes only later when they have time to reflect. He noticed the house changes, but didn't know what to think.

You are not making a mistake by acting upbeat. I totally relate to how insane it seems to act happy when someone is breaking your heart. You wonder if you are "enabling" him to believe he has done nothing wrong. You don't have to have amnesia, but more like you won't allow anyone to wreck your children's lives or yours, b/c you are too great a woman and life is too short to allow that.

Besides if the other option is to make him face your pain, is that more likely to result in him returning to you? No it really is not. Remember that one huge factor, I believe, in my own h waking up was that I really was adapting to the idea of being a single mom, with an ex who was decent but gone....and I started to like the freedom not having to put h's job first, brought into my life and my future. He saw my job applications for jobs in places I would like to live. Not where he was, btw. Not even close. I wasn't angry at him so much as starting to wonder if he had done me a big favor....learning to like the hand I was dealt, and if there was no choice within the M, there was still a lot of choice in my life and my future. Strangely, the most likely way for you to get him back is to act (and eventually, to actually believe) as if you will be fine without him b/c you are such a good catch. You are smart, you are funny (you are funny, aren't you?) you are interesting and interested in many things, you never bore, you are loving with your children (never feel insecure about that, or at least, don't reveal it to him) you are attractive and your self respect is reflected by how you care for your body and mind and soul. You have (or will soon) hobbies, you pursue new interests/or old passions. You are sensual without being vulgar. You are, in a sentence, a woman only a fool would leave.



As for the anniversary, here are some ideas you can ignore, or do. I was amazed when my h planned on being here for our 25th, after missing our 24th (sent flowers) and moving away for his stupid manly adventurous job up there....

I planned a trip to go to Italy but changed the dates a little when h said he'd be here in California for the actual date. So, for the 25th he spent some big bucks on a present for me, and was fairly romantic but circumspect. I told him that although I loved him (in reply to his saying it to me) but that I felt he had left the M geographically and broken my heart. He tried to explain, but he is not the verbal person I am. He tried to reassure, but for Christ's sake, he had moved and acted as if it "the plan" was that he'd go "check it out" up there and if it was good, we'd see what's next. That's what we told our d10 and even though it may have enabled him it also was how HE felt and what he believed he had to do. So for him it was the truth. It protected her heart and so I allowed that version to be told, and in retrospect I don't regret it.

Okay, so off we went to Italy while H worked up in the manly tundra....he called often but could not get through much. Which was actually great. For me. Nothing in Italy reminded me of h but his knowing that ALL of his family was on a wonderful trip without him, b/c he was busy at work by his own choice,.....did get to him. I would never have known this except his receptionist mentioned to me when I did get through, that he had "been concerned when he didn't hear from you..." Oh really? "Concerned...?" excellent....let him wonder how we can have fun without him. At some point much later, I remarked that I was stuck with all the duties of the family and finances and college applications and raising the kids and he said "Well I'm lonely every single day and you have the better deal!...." wth???? Guess what?
he was right.

He had made selfish choices and left for a JOB....but I was tucking the kids in every night and laughing and sharing their day to day lives and realizing how little time they spend in our homes in the spans of our lives. I mean, if I live to be 90 they'll have only spent 20 +% of their time in our homes as a family and much of that they'll never recall. Try hard to be there for them and it will pay off so well, and if your h doesn't return, they'll know they have SOMEONE they can always count on to be there for them. That's the kids big fears, that parents leave, not just dads. They don't know that sometimes one leaves but that they still have someone looking out for them. A parent leaving is like the sky falling to a kid. How can the protector be absent? Don't badmouth him to your kids either, it can backfire on you legally speaking and always backfires on you within the M. The kids figure things out for themselves anyway. From what I'm told by my own children, my negative comments were hurtful to THEM and my restraint, when I managed it, was welcome and admired...seriously, I would never know that but both the older kids told their employers or teachers, and it got back to me. Such a relief...trust me on this.

I'm babbling now. OH, okay. The anniversary "gift" I got for h was a scrapbook of our M....nothing obvious right? Seriously, I figured it would honor what we had created even if it was over. I mean, it was still worth remembering no matter how it ends, b/c you have brought 3 wonderful people into this world, and were once very close. You once had a good thing. Thank him for fathering the kids and for the laughs and interesting years you've had together and sign it without the word "love" in it.

Maybe something like, "Thank you for 10 years of closeness/M, and for fathering 3 beautiful miracles" .

In a way, don't you wish him to find what he is seeking? Of course you want that to be you....if it is to be, he'll have to discover it himself. You cannot stand over his shoulder helping him put the pieces into the puzzle b/c he must do this himself...

So stop the snooping b/c it IS painful and cannot help you. Even if you found out the A ended, if he doesn't return to you or tell you he loves you, what difference will it all make? You see, it is his actions toward you and the M that matter, not OW..

BTW just b/c he acts happy in front of you one day, means nothing. My H would ALWAYS act happy and upbeat as if nothing was wrong, which was kind of weird and crazy...only later did he mention the loneliness of every day. He'd call at first, not that often and that really bugged me. I had to do some serious 'calm down' exercises to keep from screaming at him. When I did lose it, he'd scream back or hang up....real effective.

You know Morgan, here is the stupid thing I did in my M that I wish I could erase. When h would work late, which he did often, I felt it was b/c he wasn't placing enough value on family time, or somehow I felt insulted by his choices in general even if a given night on call wasn't his doing. I felt that when he came home, if I acted happy and "as if" then he'd feel no guilt and therefore, no reason to change. I even feared he'd take me more for granted and would never come home b/c he knew he didn't have to....brilliant huh? But the thing is, why didn't I notice my plan didn't work that way? Why didn't I try something else? Stupidity, stubborness, who knows? Why didn't I instead, make a home warm and make him feel welcomed so that only an idiot would choose work over us???

Believe me, I'll try very hard to do it differently with him from now on. And if I ended up single and then in a new R, I would try hard to recall this lesson. It applies to your sitch now too. Think about how UNattractive and UNfun feeling critisized is...don't do it if you want the M to survive this crisis. Didn't the Chinese have the same symbol for the word "crisis" as the two words, "Danger" and "Opportunity"?? I think so. Use this as an opportunity to sincerely assess your own role in all this, to change it, to own it, and to improve as a partner no matter who you end up with.

So, now when I speak to h I make plans for fun things, telling him the good stuff we do, how the basketball game for d10 went and how she scored and excelled and etc....you get the point. He wants to be there. He wants to be together because it is fun and loving....not b/c he feels like a shitty man for doing what he did.

Does your h have remorse? Hell yes he does. Maybe he has repressed it for now, b/c it is fresh and gut wrenching to him....but it is there. He is not insane, even if his behavior is....

My h mentioned that to me recently too. I said something about my fear, in part due to his apparent lack of remorse, to which he said "I HAVE TONS OF REMORSE!!" So, you don't know and that's a fact. Besides If your h's behavior really revealed his heart, you would have known your M was in trouble, right?

He's confused, but you don't have to be. He's selfish, but you don't have to be.

Frankly, as he is now, you don't want him. So, you can move on in your life and live your life with clarity and intent. And while you won't "wait" for him, you don't have to slam any doors either....

hope this helps, we're all just doing the best we can. I am reminded of a 9 year old girl with cancer, I met at a camp for kids with terminal illnesses. She knew it was highly likely she'd die. She once said, "I used to ask God why I was sick. I'd say , "why? Why me? Why? Why? Why? And then I thought, "I just am... and I gotta have fun while I'm here."
WHen I was pregnant and had a hurt back, I wallowed in self pity one night, and looked at a full moon. I thought of the other women in the world who were also pregnant and wondered what they were thinking, worried about, etc. I had an epiphany.
In the grand scheme of things, you are rich and well off. You can walk around without a male chaperone, you can even vote. No one is shooting at you. No one is trying to hack off your limbs b/c you aren't in their tribe. There is food in your refrigerator and next week there will still be food. You have the medicine your family needs, and a roof over your head. You do not fear the rain and how it will soak your muddy flooring...your children are healthy and they love you...you have love in your life, you are not learning disabled, you are not in severe physical pain, you are not facing imminent death. You are free to choose what you do with the rest of your life. You can move, change jobs, re-enter the work force and to a large extent, choose which path you will take in that work force.

And again recall, you are loved and needed...there are many who will never know this joy in their lives, let alone for 10 years, or with 3 children. You are lucky indeed. Don't lose sight of that b/c of the pain you are feeling. The pain will fade with time and you will heal. But the love your children share with you will endure, and who knows what else will? For now, be at peace with what is, and plan a happy life for yourself and your children.
j-

[SallyM]

Mike, hell no, I didn't take him. and I had a fantastic trip, the best I could have in the circumstances. helps that my friend (we've known each other since we were 14) spoiled me rotten, and that she is a therapist so knew how to deal with me if I got morose. which, amazingly, I didn't, not the whole week. I had a ball...had some adventures, relaxed, ate/drank and generally took care of ME. He did send flowers from the kids and him, and he did call/we chatted and had good, DB classic phone conversations (pre me finding DB).

and he, of course, couldn't just sit at home and take care of the kids. nope. and I so wanted him to (my own little bout with shadenfreude). instead he had a launch party and spent my birthday with OW (ouch), and then a few days later flew to ireland for an incentive trip.

as for this trip, well, you are right, of course, I wouldn't want him to go, not as things are now. and I know 3 months is a long time, but not sure we'll even be close to where we would need to be (and that's a shot in the dark we'll ever be there). so I'll plan something fun with my girlfriends. either vegas, or maybe I'll head to florida again, or maybe out to CA (where I grew up, tons of friends just itching to make me feel better).

[SallyM]

25yrsmlc, wow. seriously, you are amazing to take the time to write all of that. once again, I find myself printing your post out to refer back to. I appreciate your support and sharing your own story with me. Its so funny, I'm so shocked still, sometimes I don't think I really understand that this actually happened/is happening, but then I hear from you and others here and you all just get it. and have lived to tell the tale.

its funny when you say that I am standing over his shoulder trying to put the pieces in the puzzle for him. my friend, a therapist, keeps saying something similar to me...that I need to let him take his own journey/do his own therapy, not do it for him. but its hard for me not to. but I won't, I will continue to DB, I will continue to GAL and do all the things I need to do to remind myself and him who I am. and sniveling isn't who I am.

I'll tell you, it felt good to know I've gone a full week (and more!) with no fighting. and actually LIKED myself again.

[SallyM]

post-mortem from H visit...how did I do? (seriously)

he got here after his therapy appt. I noticed his car in the driveway, but he didn't come in, I could see him on his phone and I swear my heart dropped into my stomach. I just knew he was on the phone with OW, telling her that he was going to tell me tonight it was over for good.

yes, I know I shouldn't do that, I mean, the man does work for a living, it might have been a legit call and all that. still, hard for my mind not to go there.

when he came in a few minutes later, I was upbeat and busy...ready to head to the gym. he said hi to the kids, then came into the kitchen where I was. immediately asked me where I was going on vacation. sounded wistful as he asked (me projecting?). I told him I was just starting to make plans, would let him know when things firmed up. He then asked me, quietly, if I was just done with us now. Funny, he has asked me this question many times over the past few months. the last time he did, he sounded so hopeful, like I would finally say yes and do the hard part for him. a couple of days after that (july 4), we had a good talk and I told him I wasn't ready for us to be over yet. he said the same. and that was our last R talk for many reasons.

anyway, tonight when he said that, I said that I was in the same place I had been (meaning want our M to work out), but that I can't...(started to say can't do it on my own, but stopped myself, btdt, didn't want to get into it)...ammended it to say that I need to live my life. I was upbeat when I said all of this. it was almost funny, neither of us would make eye contact. he knows he's an ass, I know he's an ass, lol.

anyway, we had some light conversation before I left. for some reason my trip to the mall with my friend came up and I told him I bought a new skirt and I was psyched...I look freaking great in it, and its a size 6, something I've tried to get back to since I had the twins. He said I looked like a 6, looked really good, and asked if I'd show him the skirt. I told him it was upstairs in my bag (ready for my nyc trip) and he asked me to model it. Like hell. but I just laughed and said maybe sometime.

as I was heading out to the gym, he told me I didn't have to leave just because he came to spend time with the kids. I told him I know, but I have stuff to do (busy busy busy and all that).

had a good w/o, went to the grocery store, came home for his last hour here. We chatted a bit, I ended up getting take-out for dinner which he shared some of. I kept everything light and we actually had some fun talk...no R talk, just goofy stuff that we always liked...in this instance, the pop culture show on vh-1 now. we said last time it was on we should get his buddy and go on it, we'd sweep we're such dorks about pop cult stuff.

put the kids to bed, and chatted a couple of more minutes, then he said, we'll, bye, but acted like he wanted to say something more, or chat some more. I didn't stop him from leaving. and maybe I'm projecting some. probably.

so did I do okay? don't mean to sound so needy, but better to you than to him!

[jackw]

You did wonderful!!! A++++ Text book DBing!!!

Very proud of you!