Response to Cemar2

[fearless]

Hey Cemar, I thought we were having an interesting conversation on the last thread. Would you like to pick it back up? Here is your last post to me and mine back to you. TO BE CLEAR, my point about stereotypes is not to argue whether or how true they are. The point is to say it does not matter if a stereotype is true for 1% or 99% of men if it is NOT true for you. Also I added some information about people I know who are not cuddlers/touchers.

fearless:

1) Are BOTH men's and women's needs equally important in a relationship? Yes. This is the BIGGEST problem. Most people (and they may not relalize it) actually elevate the women's needs above the man's, or they dismiss the male needs all together. The biggest hurdle us guys have to face is this general preception among women that THEIR needs are the REAL needs of marriage, sex is a minor thing. Also, to be equally important means that they must be unconditionally met. As soon as you set conditions, you have ELEVATED one persons needs above the other.
2) For a marriage to be on solid ground BOTH partners need to be getting their needs met and meeting the others needs?
After thinking about this, I would say no. Heck the majority of people that stay married for life are in this boat. Perfect example would be my wifes parents, they clearly don't meet each others needs, but they will never divorce. So their marriage is solid (its not going to end), but their is not much good about it. In fact, if PM is right, MOST couples that stay married for life are in this boat, only the people that HAVE PM's get beyond having a crappy marriage.
3) Do you believe that these needs need to be completely and fully met for each other at ALL times? Of course not, why would anyone think this. Much of the time, yes. Showing good effort to TRY and meet needs, yes.
4) Do you know what your wife's communication needs are? If so, how do you know her needs – did she tell you or have you assumed?
We have talked aobut it. She likes to talk, as long as it is not romantic or physical in any way. But at the same time, she does NOT want to be too close, she thinks that is weird for couples to be best friends. So she likes to talk, but she has a highly restrictive comfort zone as to HOW intimate that talk can be (she has been this way all along). She even commented one time that she likes me IN the room with her, like to watch TV, but she does not like to be close to me. Physical closeness makes her uncomfortable.

(To be clear I do not view men and women like this)
I apologize if I missed that. So how do you view men? I see myself as completely normal, I have read the books and how they describe male needs and I pretty much FIT them. So what is the real male, and what does he need from marriage?

Thanks for the thoughtful reply and directness of your answers!

(To be clear I do not view men and women like this)
I apologize if I missed that. So how do you view men? I see myself as completely normal, I have read the books and how they describe male needs and I pretty much FIT them. So what is the real male, and what does he need from marriage?

No apology needed for me. I was just concerned that you may miss what people are saying to you because of assumptions you make. This is about trying to help you communicate better.

As far as the "real" male (or "real" female for that matter), I try not to generalize too much because it seems like there are exceptions everywhere and it's better to understand the individual. IN MY OPINION I really don't care what the stereotypes are for men and women or whether they are true for the majority. The fact is for you it IS important for a feeling of desire. The main issue I am curious about for you is to make sure that wanting of desire for your wife is simply THAT and not a way of getting SELF VALIDATION.

1) It's interesting that you feel that getting a man's needs seen as real is an issue because I can tell you from watching MANY marriages up close that it is just as common for a man's needs to be elevated. REGARDLESS of that, let's stick with your marriage.

You do FEEL your wife's needs have a higher elevation than your own, right? Has your wife explicitly stated that her needs for more important than yours? Does she feel like her needs are met by you? Have you asked her directly if she believes her needs are more important that yours?

(By the way an interesting article Raven sent me from MSN has married couples telling the secret to good marriages. One man married happily for 42 years said that he and his wife were told when they got married that EACH should give 60% and take 40%.

2) Okay...

3) Of course not, why would anyone think this. Well I had to ask because when you write I feel an intensity of neediness from you that is overwhelming at times. That may or may not be true in real life but I think you deserve to know the impression that you give off with your writing. Glad to know you do not expect constant meeting of needs. Does it surprise you to know that I get the impression that you do want your needs met constantly? Is it possible your wife gets that impression?

4) So are you able to give her the communication she needs? Has she expressed that she feels she gets what she needs from you?

Also I personally know a man and woman who are not cuddlers/physical touch people. The man is the husband of a friend of mine and she is okay with it. I know she would appreciate more cuddling but physical touch is not a LL for her. What is funny is that her toddler son has been the exact same way since he was a baby. Didn't like to be held or cuddled!! So she is so happy her newest baby is more of a cuddler:)

And one of my best friends is a woman who does not like constant cuddling and touching. She has no hang-ups with sex and enjoys it although she is a single woman again (by her choice!). In her 4 year long distance relationship with her boyfriend she would complain that he could be so touchy feely that it was irritating to her. She would be just fine sitting in a room separately from him talking/watching TV.

I only list these examples to show that some "normal" people (without sexual abuse or physical abuse issues) just may not like touching as much as others. That does not mean that your wife does not have other underlying issues. I just mean that,without ANY other evidence than she does not like to touch all the time and does not initiate sex, I wouldn't automatically assume there has been abuse in her life. There may have been but I think you'll need to search further.