"they say you're not supposed to believe anything they say and only half of what you see...."
Ok. Thanks for the reminder on that one! I try to keep in mind that when she is hurt, she can be very vindictive, but it hurts so much none the less. I think she feels like she has no other option and that she will never make me happy-it is a recurring pattern with us, and yet it's her overriding fear of that which seems to make her defensive in the first place. She says she really is done this time, and yet I can't keep praying and holding on to the hope that she will come home and see how much we have worth saving. We have had the same pattern in our arguments for almost the duration of our R, and I keep hoping that once and for all she will see where her own responsibility lies and be willing to change things, rather than putting it all on me as she has in the past. I'm trying to change the patterns from afar by repeating in my mind (and sometimes out loud), "I forgive you".
[quote=Mr. Hindsight She says she really is done this time, and yet I can't keep praying and holding on to the hope that she will come home and see how much we have worth saving. [/quote]
My last seperation I heard that too. I'm done we're thru. He even told me to take his name off the bills, joint account and that he was going to find a lawyer. NONE of which happened. He came back. Yes we're going thru it again BUT so far this time I haven't heard take my name off everything and I'm seeing a lawyer. The only thing that has ever been mentioned is he wasn't going to rush to file unless I wanted him too. Otherwise he is going to drag his feet. I have heard I'm done, I don't see how we can ever be together again, nothings changed, I can't.... I haven't even heard any of those things in the last couple weeks. Yes he still says negatives but not that bad more like we're split up, I don't know how to get to where I can trust again. AND he's even thrown out some positives. Sooo... I'm really starting to get the time is on OUR side part. The longer that goes by that they aren't actually doing something the longer we have to prove we have changed and things will be better.
I know it's hard to not get down or dwell on the negatives. I'm having problems with that msyelf. I've done better the last 3 days but at the moment I'm not as upbeat as I was. So it's all part of the rollercoaster ride. I did finally realize the other night that as much as I hate this sitch there has been some good. He's getting out of a job he loathes to work somewhere else. I've realized where I fell short and am working on that.
Just give yourself time. Give her time. She's the one controlling this ride. Time and patience. It really is on your side. May not feel like it but I figure every day that goes by without D being mentioned is a good day even if I'm not feeling all that good.
W: 33 H: 37 SS: 14 S: 7 S: 3 married 08/09/97 Seperated 11/02 05/07 H moved back 8/26/07
So when he goes into the D mode does he completely withdraw as if he is an entirely different person? Oh yes, did I mention she tried to give my ring back on my birthday? I feel like my forgiveness is being tested more and more as this goes on. It feels like she is going through a strange form of denial. She has always had issues with confidence in being able to take care of herself...I just wish there were other ways to find it than leaving a marriage....????
Oh yes. He won't talk to me he won't look at me. If we do talk it's because of the kids or bills or something like that. He just shuts down. It's like he has no feelings whatsoever for me any more.
As for the ring. The first thing my H does when he leaves is take his ring off. Last time he left it here. This time I have no idea where it is or if he still has it. I still wear mine because I still believe in our marriage.
I'm hopeful because after the first couple weeks he started talking to me again. And now when he has a bad day or good news or bad news I'm the one he talks too. He'll say I left because I didn't think you were there for me so I shouldn't be leaning on you now. Yet he keeps doing it. I also heard I don't want to give you false hope, I've given us up for dead. All kinds of nice things. I just keep reminding myself I've heard it all before and so far he's always found his way back home. And HE'S the one that keeps talking to me. I have people tell me if he were truly done then he'd get his stuff out, file for D, stop talking to me all together. I can't always hold onto that. I have my hopeless days and days where I do nothing but cry. But you just have to ride out those days and hope tomorrow is better.
I saw this quote one day that I really like:
Everything will be okay in the end. If everything is not okay it's not the end.
And it's so true. No matter what the outcome of our sitchs will be at the end of it we will be okay. Hard to imagine being ok without your marriage I'm not to the point I can say that but....
W: 33 H: 37 SS: 14 S: 7 S: 3 married 08/09/97 Seperated 11/02 05/07 H moved back 8/26/07
Sounds all so familiar. Maybe your H and W should hang out sometime! hehe. The part that makes me worry most is that she is very impulsive and prone to making snap decisions...most of her inner turmoil in our M seems to stem from the decisions she made before we met. I am praying that she has learned from those decisions and will not be so hasty in ending our M. There is an amazing wall of denial that she carries through into our own arguments and now to where we are now. It's so scary!
Yeah my H tends to make snap decisions. 1) he left here 2) he's quitting his job and starting a new one. Though the job isn't a bad thing he's doing it in a less then ideal frame of mind. I also believe with my H most of his problems lie within himself from childhood to his first marriage. He always has different reasons for leaving and though they may not be issues I think the bigger picture lies within himself.
W: 33 H: 37 SS: 14 S: 7 S: 3 married 08/09/97 Seperated 11/02 05/07 H moved back 8/26/07
I second that: don't believe anything you hear. (Except this!)...(And all previous advice!):
I actually think that your wife is correct in challenging the "bipolar" diagnosis. I do think that she is depressed. I'll hazard a guess that she may have been depressed for years. But the person you describe is someone cyclically angry, with touches of paranoia and self-hate--and very loving and supportive between times. She doesn't seem to have episodes of mania.
I'm no expert, but a very, very similar cycle runs in my own family. My brother and I, as kids, took to spiking my mother's hot tea with a tranquilizer...which was very bad, but we lived in fear of her rages. Between times, she was a regular Earth Mother. There seemed to be no connection between Good Momma and Bad Momma. They seemed to hold no communion with each other. To this day, my mother has no clue about the kind of destruction she was capable of. She's mellowed; she's a good lady--always was. Back in the day, her rages had seemed to be in some way linked to her periods--like some kind of insanely magnified PMS.
The thing that sets your wife apart is that she does have a clue about what she's doing. She may feel helpless to stop that train. It's about as overwhelming for the person experiencing the anger and depression as for any bystanders mowed down. But if things get bad enough for her, she may choose to do the work she must do in order to be the person she was meant to be.
I say this, because, early in my marriage, I started reenacting the same cycle of sweetness and rage that had made my own childhood so unstable. It was only when my husband actually left me that I panicked and sought help. Counseling didn't help me. It's hard to find a counselor who is both sensitive and very smart. Anti-depressants were my life-saver.
So, I think that this is the time for you to focus completely on yourself. Your wife HAS to find her own way. It seems counterintuitive to lure her back by ignoring her, but it sounds like you've tried the loving approach on enough occasions to convince you that it ain't the way to go.
Give her space. Give yourself space. She knows you love her. Now's the time for you to do things that will make YOU happy. I think that you must stop pursuing her. Allow her to contact you. Be pleasant and kind, but brief. Go hiking, work out, write a novel, do anything that pleases you and takes your mind off your troubles.
When your wife calms down, she's going to start thinking...
Interesting about the "rage/love cycles". I guess I was under the impression that bpd fit this description. I also believe her struggles stem from childhood issues with her parents-supportive and critical mother and angry father, and some rather poor communication patterns within the family. They are very loving people, but also extremely critical and sarcastic. Emotions were rarely discussed and the parents were never seen arguing. Eventually her patterns began to spread out as I realized I was adopting them myself, which is interesting since she has got me pegged as the one with the temper. I DO have one, like anyone, but as we have gone through this push and pull thing over the years, I have become more and more impatient with her, and am just as much the problem. However, if I try to explain that to her, she reverses it and tries to tell me that I am blaming her for everything, which I am not at all. When this sort of thing has happened to us in the past, before our M, I think she came back prematurely before she had found her inner strength, and I enabled it since I was missing her so much and didn't want to take the chance of losing her all together. Now, I feel like it's "make it or break it" time, and I am praying that she finds the strength within she is seeking, but also that it will lead her back.
It sounds as if your wife actively seeks a big knock-down blowout as a way of releasing the stress and anxiety that build up.
If that's the case, then there's NOTHING you can do to prevent a fight. She may even feel sort of "cleansed" by fighting. My mother used to let it all out, then sit down for a happy chat on the phone. The bodies would be lying all strewn through the house...
This may not be your sitch, exactly, but the fact that you can't avoid a fight if someone's gunning for one remains true. I think that's why space is so important right now, for both of you.
Oh yea, I'm all about space after the slap in the face (figurative) the other day. No more contact from this end anyway. As for the blowout idea...makes sense. The confusing art though is that she has always told me that our regular BO's are too much for her, and that's why she is leaving. On the other hand...she rarely sits me down to speak openly with me about our R/M problems. It's more nitpicking and subtle chastising until I blow at her, then she does the blame reversal, and goes into what I call "stealth manipulation mode"..i.e: the silent control/give her space thing-which is how we got here! I know it's my own responsibility to control my temper at these times, but so very hard to do, although now that I am understanding the cycle better with the time apart, I think I will be better at handling should we try to work this out. Thanks to all who have been responding to my sitch-your insights are very helpful and appreciated!
