I tried to go back over some of your thread but I'm a little confused about your stitch right now. But, to try to answer you question about your W, it sounds like her personality type is very different from yours...and probably mine...so it makes it hard to understand people different from us. My H is very differnt from me. Like your W, he never stated a conversation about serious stuff or he would not respond to me when I tried to talk about our R in the first decades of our M. He would stare at the tv while I tried to talk. I know how that affected me after so many years of that. I began to give up on the "talks" and to protect my feelings...I started putting up walls.
I don't want to hurt your feelings, but you have admitted yourself, wheather you realize it or not....you are a "controlling" type. I am too. So, with that said, I know your frustration, okay? I am impatient and I am a "take charge" type of person, so it is very, very hard to do nothing and wait it out. But, sweetie, that is what you are going to have to do.
Stop asking her how the C session went! You are tearing everything down each time you do that! Don't ask the C what she said because if the C is what he should be...he won't tell you anything she confided in him. You wouldn't want him to tell her what you confided in him. Stop analyzing every word that is said. You will go crazy!
You need to stop pushing her to see the C, to talk to the C. If she is anything like my H, "talking" about her feelings and getting it all "out"....is as hard for her as it is for you and I to keep ours all bottled up! It took me decades to finally realize that! My H actually does not know how to put into words how he feels. That amazes someone like me that wants to talk about feelings all the time! But, even though I can't understand him being like that...I have to accept it. So will you. I know how hard and frustrating it is. You want to hear how everything went and she can't talk about it. Leave it alone.
I read some of WAW1978 thread and it sounded like mine. When I tried to tell my H that I did not want to give him false hope...he took it that I was being negative about working on the M. But listen to me very closely....from what I have read (which is a lot, believe me) and knowing how my H is in our R & M, ........just a "smile" from the WAS can be interpreted by the LBS as "hope". That is why we WAW/WAS have to be so careful and not be too nice...you will think everything is going to be fine...that it is "fixed". If you have read my thread, you saw where just by laying my head on my H shoulder in a time of emotional break-down over finances....he took it as a "sign"! My God! I just needed his support for a few minutes. I needed him to be my friend. I would have laid my head on anyone's shoulder at the time.
So, the rest of the night, I had to keep my distance because he was so excited about the "breakthrough". Now he never said those words.....ok? But, his attitude did. I thought...yep, he's getting false hopes here. He comes in and kisses me on my shoulder....which maybe he was just trying to give me a sense of "security", but I was not ready for any touchy-touchy stuff. Remember, I am still a "almost WAW".
So, back to your question. It sounds to me that it is not her nature to initiate conversations about serious stuff such as your R. You see, this is what you are wanting to hear from her. Plus, you want to know what she is thinking, feeling, etc., about everything...and she just can't do it. She may never be able to do it if it is not her nature. That is what you will have to accept. See, I'm not a passive person, so it is hard for me to know what her next move might be. However, being close to a WAW, I can just tell you to not push. You are pushing when you ask her anything about her feelings right now. To you, you are probably trying to show you care about her. But to her, you are pushing. If she doesn't want to tell you what happened at the C....she doesn't want to talk about feelings.....period. I'm sorry because I know it is driving you crazy. But, you have to drop it....or loose her forever.
I don't know about the back and forth business. It sounds to me like she was watching you for "changes" and didn't get the results she wanted.....left....came back....same disappointment.....left, etc. I kind of got lost on some of the stitch about that. However, if you are asking me if she will have the balls to initiate making a move toward reuniting the R or M.....well, sweetie, I don't know. But again, you are wanting to take control. Can you see that? You are afraid. You are afraid she won't do anything so you want to take the wheel and drive. You want to handle it for her. Can't do it sweetie.
Listen, if she wants to make the M work....she will figure it out (as far as making the move you are wondering about). In the meantime, you have got to think about YOU! You have got to be a "new and improved" you ....for YOU! And do it with the mindset that it is for good and that it is going to last with or without the possibility of getting back together with your W. Work on you and stop thinking about her every second of the day.
Apparently, she needs to see a "new and improved" you. And, she will need to watch this for some time to convence herself that it is the real thing and not some "show" or tactic you are using to get her back.....and then the same old, same old. That is what she is afraid of....repeating what has already been played out before. She can't handle that again. That is why I said it has to be for "real" and it has to be for "you"....period.
CVA, I know how hard it is because like I said, I am a "controlling person" by nature, but over the decades I've learned you just cannot control some situations or people. Neither can you change people...but you can change you. So, work on that. Oh, BTW, setting dates on the calendar and hoping you see certain things happen in the R by that time....you are setting yourself up for possible disappointment. It is fine to set personal goals for yourself....but don't set calendar dates for R. It is another form of controlling. And, if your W gets a clue about this....she will see it as another form of pressure...big time.
As so many on this board have expressed.....the LBS usually finds out too late (almost) what it is they were doing to hurt the R. I like what Michelle says about not trying to get the old R back but aim toward a new R. BTW, that doesn't mean with a different person.
I have a question for you. Did I miss something in your thread, or are you paying for her place to live? Are you staying there until the kid's bedtime and then leaving every night? (That's not giving her time alone, sweetie, no space at all for her.) If you are supporting her living expenses...no wonder she is okay with that. However, it causes her to feel that she "owes" you something in return.....via the C sessions. More pressure!!!
IMHO, your only hope is to back off, give her that space she needs to be alone and able to think for herself and feel free to do what she decides to do during a 24 hour day without you being there. Stop asking her questions about everything....that is drilling her! You don't see it as being that way, but that is the way she feels.
It will be hard to act like a caring friend without a personal motive (because, of course, you have one). Try to stop acting like a controlling husband and just be a concerned, caring friend who is there IF she calls or IF she wants to talk when you go to get the kids. Did you notice I said....get the kids? You need to take the kids and leave her there to be alone or let her go do whatever she wants to do. Stop staying there using the kids as your excuse because she knows what you are doing. Just call her and set up a time to drop by to pick up the kids, and tell her when they will be back...and leave. Don't hang around, don't pick for information, don't drag up old memories....just leave. A WAW wants to scream something......"Just get out of here and leave me alone!"
But, like I told you before, she probably won't say that because she doesn't want to hurt you. That is why WAW say things like I love you, but I'm not IN-LOVE with you. She must care a lot about you to go to the C sessions, etc. To me, that says a lot. So, don't give up. You both are scared about the future and your R. You are a "fixer" and that is part of your problem right now....and hers too. Stop trying to fix it...ok? Give it time...give it a rest...work on CVA. When she see your changes and decides it is going to stick this time, then I think that will be your only avenue to show her there is hope for a future together. Have YOU got the balls to do it? Can you stick it out?
One last thought for right now.....maybe...lol. A drastic sudden change may cause her to be suspicious or even frighten her a little. Not knowing your history and not knowing her...it is hard to speculate. Just try to be smoothe about your changes..........and oh........don't "announce" your changes. Don't point out to her how you are changing. Even if she is not around all the time to see those new & improved changes...others will notice and the word gets out and back to her. She may never say anything to let you know she has noticed your changes....but she will. Keep on keeping on. Remember, you are doing it for you.....and behaving "as if". Be confident, but not controlling. Be a friend, but not touchy-touchy. Be a dad to your kids, without sharing that time with her. She will notice that CVA has a life of his own and possibly a life without her! Wow! I promise, it will get her attention if you handle it properly. Then later, much later, you can start the dating and romancing over....but sweetie that is way down the road from here. Be very, very patient.
Let me hear from you.
Sandi2
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
