H coming today, what do I do when he asks how I am

[25yearsmlc]

Morgan,

Just caught your thread and I understand that you want him to know your pain and what damage HE has done to you and your children. I really get that. But now is not the time for that. You see, what makes you attractive is not your neediness, or clinginess or your sadness. Those things will not bring him back. And if he uses your apparent "moving on" attitude as an excuse to let himself off the hook, I don't buy that in the long run. More likely he'll realize that the only possible way for you to move on and be doing well is if 1) he treated you so poorly that he killed your love and or, you were no longer willing to have pain inflicted on you, and 2) for you to have moved on means you are strong, in shape, attractive and all the things he was originally attracted to in you.

Now, if you tell me that you were super needy when you met and that you have to remain that way for him to come back, my advice would be different but more like, "gross, what a weird way to form a marriage" if you kwim.

For now, imho, you have to follow my DB coach's advice, which is the main thing that placed me in "piecing our marriage back together". We've been apart for 2 years. Yep, he moved 300 miles away for a year of more schooling and then moved to a new job, all the while saying he "hoped" we'd joing him..... I'm moving in 6 weeks with our d10 to join H (older ones in college) and be together in a new place. I don't want to move there, but I'm willing to give it 2 years and he SAYS he'll move back here or some other place if we dont' BOTH love it there by then. I am choosing to believe him. My story is a Long story with (knock on wood and genuflect) an apparently happy ending/new beginning. Or at least a hopeful one. and I can promise you that I'd be divorced if I had not found this place/advice and source of faith in trying to save the M. Mine might well still end in divorce, but I am feeling that it won't and besides, if it does, it won't be for lack of trying on my part. And it gives d10 more time with h....so, back to you.

I don't know your sitch much. I assume he will justify his A if he has not already, and that usually is done by vilifying you. He must paint a negative picture of you with negative images of life at home, to justify leaving it. So, your job is to counter those negative pictures with positive ones. Hence, no anger. I KNOW that requires the patience of a saint. I get that. But in front of him, lose the anger. Show it here. But not in front of him. Not b/c he deserves no anger, but b/c you want the M to work so you have to counter the negatives, remember? Otherwise he can say, "yep, w sure is a bitch. thank God I left, don't want to go back there to be hassled and nagged (or held accountable)...blah blah blah.

Do you want the guy back, assuming he changes back into who you thought he was? If so, you have to Keep the Road Home Paved and Smooth. Don't make it impossible for him to come back, but do not be so available that he sees you as pitiful, a doormat who he won't respect and respect is a BIG part of love, which I realize more now. Contempt is supposedly a fatal sign in a marriage, according to some expert. But he has a point. It's disrespectful to have contempt and I think you need to remember that begging, pleading is not respecting yourself. I realize also, that there is a fine line between being prideful, and enforcing healthy boundaries. Make sure your choices are not based on wanting to punish him and that has been my internal guide so ask yourself--"is this going to help me reach my goal? what will this really do or make him feel? Guilt?--usually comes out as anger so it won't work. Or am I doing this to teach him a lesson? " If so, don't. My God, I know the line between pride and self respect is blurry and shifting at times. But your neediness has not helped so far and he asks about you in part, to alleviate his guilt but also to confirm his reasons for feeling uncomfortable with you. And to prove he's a nice guy and blah blah blah
More DB coach advice, which I will Stipulate....it's hard.....but for me, it helped a lot.

"Listen like a lover"--no attacking his choices, b/c when you attack the choices, he is forced to defend them rather than really looking objectively at them. This does not mean to praise meanness, but to listen as best you can, and let him see that there is friendship at least, for the kids. The two couples I know who divorced and remarried had friendships (took awhile of course, and both M's had kids) that allowed some level of comfort and then confiding, and then emotional intimacy and eventual reconciliation. Same for me. Anger is still an issue for me but when h said the other day that he wants to start fresh, it finally dawned on me. He feels remorse but may not ever know the depths of pain he caused me or the damage he did to our children and his R's with them....so the question becomes, "can I start over with him with a clean slate?" I have been able in the past, a few times, to go on trips with him and set aside/compartmentalize his past "misdeeds" so that the kids and I could have some good memories on a long weekend when he is here, or on a vacation.

When I am able to promise myself that I don't have to lose the righteous anger I feel forever (though I probably do...) and I am not making his behavior "right" by setting my anger aside temporarily,.... I'm helping my kids, if nothing else, by having both parents in a car or room without a fight and maybe with some friendliness...a good memory.

I have to tell you that I've had some remarkable luck with this. It has helped so much to remember why I loved this man in the first place. We laugh a lot when there is no tension. He is a smart guy and I like him answering the kids questions in depth.

DB words: APPLAUD LOUDLY FOR THE 1% OF GOOD HE DOES/SAYS. Um yes, that is hard as hell. But honestly, it disarms them. Example: h used to pay all the bills and get grumpy about it, every month. When he moved some bills fell through the cracks and I had to start doing it every month to be safe. I was pissed and freaked out b/c it was sad, scary and totally out of character for my h....so anyhow, after a DB session I mentioned to H that I had not paid a specifc bill and asked if he had. He was suddenly very defensive and ready to spew alien vomit on me, I could tell. He said he had NOT paid it, but he had "been paying them ALL for 20 years!" to which I said: "Yes you have, and I want to thank you for that b/c now that I'm doing them, it's really a stressor...so thanks for that". Total silence from H, instead of alien spew. Then he says, "you're welcome." For me, that moment was pivotal and has lead me to see that I will indeed do things differently from now on, if I can stay on track. But yes, that loud applause thing was really hard and sometimes impossible b/c he didn't do ANY thing I could applaud. But I could thank him for asking about how my day was, "Good, thanks for asking" and I did not have to ask him reciprocal questions after awhile. I was too busy with my plans for my future without him and just so you know, I believe the turn around for us started when I truly detached, accepted -with some resignation-that we were ending and that my plans had to change and honestly, so many options became available I'd never have thought of before. I COULD live in Europe and teach there and the kids would be GREAT with that for a year or two, what a good experience for them....I didn't have to think of H's career first and foremost for the first time in decades...it was freeing and I was looking good and men were noticing and you know, somehow I must have let it show. He became more attentive and as soon as he reached his goal (attaining his 4595th credential....) and maybe he looked around and said, "where's my family?" Who knows? He has already revised the past 2 years a lot but I know he is realizing how much fun he has missed. I suggest you gently (don't make it obvious) remind your h of the GOOD fun times your and kids and you are having....not how they are always crying for him, but what YOU and the kids did that was fun, at the game, the funny things they said in the car or when YOU tucked them in, etc. Things you'd want to know if you were travelling. Reminding him of the beautiful side to parenting is hugely important. ANd don't bad mouth him to your kids which many of us do. Hell, I cried in front of my kids and the youngest one asked 25 times if we were getting a D. I said, "I hope not b/c we've been M a long time and I love him..." Also told her, "Whatever happens, I will only do what I think will make YOU most happy" and she seemed comforted by that. Plus, if you bad mouth him to them, it will make reconciliation that much harder and regardless, will damage them more. Save your spew for here.

So, to sum up--. If you feel you have to ask him something to show you are not indifferent, ( why would you ever be indifferent to him when he is the kid's dad?) you MIGHT (or not) ask him about his job or anything other than R talk or OW talk. Most A's end on their own when they run their course. Sometimes we LBSers make them last longer by "interrupting" the natural flow of things. Do you think your marriage was a sham and that OW is perfect for him? Is he that good of an actor? He may well believe what he says at the moment. PLEASE steer the convo away from R talk and be the one to end the conversation ---remember, you don't have time to waste--maybe sometime soon-in fact, you'll kind of start to hope he just gets his [censored] together enough to end it so you can move on. You're not happy about the d, but you are looking forward to not having a stomach ache every day....)food for thought...

Be upbeat and do the 180's PLEASE b/c they help YOU grow and GAL and IF IF IF ANYTHING WILL GET HIM BACK, and there is no guarantee anything you do will get him back, it is you GAL....and besides, in the end, if he does Not return, then you will be much closer to actual moving on than you would be if you stayed stuck in the clinging despair we've all felt. Also, we on this bb know a lot about what does NOT work....so we know things NOT TO SAY and what will push them away further...
GAL also makes him think that any changes you've claimed to have made, will look more real to him, more sincere. They don't have to directly relate to his complaints so much as just show him you are CHANGING and "doing new interesting things, meeting fascinating people and going to fun, exciting places..." get it?

If you want him, (and be open to the possibility that you won't), take a big breath and step back. You have no control over his behavior, or OW's, so the good news is that you don't have to worry about it anymore. If you have no control over the weather, do you fret about it? Do you do rain dances or pray for the sun to come out and look for signs, riveted to the weather channel? I doubt it.

At least he is seeing the kids and is not pretending this is all great and easy for him, *(though I agree it got tiresome when H told me he was "lonely all the time" and h said it to me with ANGER in his voice and I thought, wth?? hello?!!??) But your WILL ACT AS IF he is fine at times. It's part of his pride showing that he is right and not wrong and blah blah blah. You can admit when pressed, that "it gets hard sometimes" and when he says he misses the kids, "They miss you too" but you do not need to say you miss him too. I mean, he is gone by choice so when he says he misses you it's often him checking up on you still hanging around waiting for him to stroke his ego and give him the okay for some more crappy behavior OR OR OR , it's a probe b/c he's having 2nd thoughts....that'll be for you to figure out IF he does it again.

I'd probably let the first few "I miss you" "still love you" probes veer off with a remark that isn't rude but also not something that soothes him either. If he says he feels bad, you can validate his feeling (not making it right morally, but acknowledging it so he knows you are listening) and say "I can see that." If you speak to him in a parental voice (with questions like "How could you do this" or "why are you hurting us so much/being so selfish//adulterer, etc) When you use your parental voice, you shut down his inner voice....his conscience and inner moral compass.

Back to you, and GAL....He has to know at some point, he will lose you if this lasts too long and you cannot give him a date for when that is, (although you can give Yourself a date at which point, you will be done with this, if you can or want to. Some people are helped knowing their limbo will end and damn it, THEY will choose the date if the WAS doesn't do it for them). The holidays will provoke some emotions and could go either way.

I caution you, if he wants back in, take it slowly. (see LisaLost' posts about this). You cannot be hurt or do more damage to the M by being careful at that time, but you sure as hell can take him back too soon b/c you are so damn grateful he came back. If you take him back to quickly or you both one night decide you want to start over, the next DAY, imo you will end up getting left again for good---mainly b/c if he comes back before he is really ready, he'll leave again and you probably won't go thru this again and ironically you'll be the one to bail....so you see, taking it slow IF he gives the signals, can only help you. But we're getting ahead of ourselves. I see hope in your sitch, but it's precarious. I honestly think that the best thing to do is what you would do if you weren't feeling like crap about your M.


Pretend he's on a boring camping trip .....in Australia, (or in Alaska with my mlc H).....I just know the obsessing I did last year, helped no one. Nothing improved by me worrying and I wasted another year of my life! Talk to me in 6 months about how it's going with the anger and forgiveness and all. The WAS has to know if you reconcile that this won't be held over their head forever and I've told my h that (he didn't have an A as far as I know, but like I said, it's a long MLC story involving moves and a job in Alaska....leaving me with the kids for him to pursue his dream blah blah blah---) so my anger is on one hand based on 2 YEARS of him gone, and visiting monthly or less, and not some crazy weekend or one night stand. But on the other hand, my obsessing about him being with OW was a gut wrenching drag and I really doubt he did much if anything. I went out a few times, btw. I was discreet and the kids don't know, but 2 years is a long time to wonder what the dating world is like. There are good guys out there and you'll meet some on this very bb. NOT SAYING to do any internet man searching here....just saying that it helps to know men who feel strong emotions, don't cheat, and hang in there when others would not. They exist. Maybe your h will become one of them.
Good luck, hope this helps even though it was really long.
j-