HELLLLLLLLLLP,,,need advice asap!

[Mr. Hindsight]

Hi. I'm new here and have a W who is about to file...

We have been married just under one year. I am in my mid 30's, W is in her mid 20's. All total, we have been together for over 4 years (including 1 yr in M). Our R has been plagued by regular blowout arguments every week or two where one or both of us become verbally abusive or threatens to leave. There has not been a lack of love or willingness to try on either part, but we both know that our main problem has been a cycle of poor communication patterns where we both get frustrated until one of us blows. Usually it's me. She also lacks patience for conflict of any kind, which doesn't help.

Before we were married she was usually the one to threaten to walk out, and I would always take her back as we tried to work on our R. Since we have been married however, she has become more and more naggy and untrusting of my motives as I have slowly distanced myself from her and her accusations. As we have both wanted to just "get back on track" with our M over the past few months, we have also both put too much pressure on our success/failure and as a result I have lost my cool and my patience to the point where in the heat of a couple of different arguments I have screamed the D word in anger, though never meaning it, and always regretting it afterwards for hurting her and our M. I know now that that was a form of control. When we were married we agreed to never say it unless we meant it, and now three weeks ago I said it again in a temper tantrum and she immediately packed a bag and headed to a friend's house to stay. At first we were both very angry and she wouldn't speak to me unless it was to express anger. She quickly began to talk to friends and family and within days she told me that she was following through with a D since she had told me if I said it again, she would take me seriously and that's what I would receive. We tried to talk it out a couple of times at her suggestion, though she was distant and I was probably pushing too hard for her to return, which I think pushed her away. Our pattern of bickering, fighting and making up has been taking it's toll on her and I don't blame her for wanting to bail, and because I am the one who voiced it first, I know I hurt her very deeply, and she says that she can't believe we will ever make it through this mess, so it's best to end it, as we have done too much damage. We have always had an amazing amount of forgiveness and love for each other, though I fear this one time may have been too much for her.

She took her ring off about a week ago and the last time we spoke she said she is going to try for an annulment, which I am told will most likely not be granted as our M was legal and does not fit the legal criteria. She also says she doesn't want a D because she does not want to think of me as her ex-H, as it would be too painful for her. She has a meeting in three days for the A, and I fear she may opt for a D when she finds out the scoop.

Here is the clincher:
I have been reading D Remedy and applying the 180-just backing off and letting her think all is fine, and letting her do the contacting. It seems to be working as she made a comment to me that she heard a change in my voice. Maybe I over did it though as she said it sounded like I am "done" with the M. She also has grilled me a couple of times as to my whereabouts to see what I am up to.Yesterday we saw each other briefly as she asked me to bring some mail to her. She me asked for a hug and was looking at me like she is still in love with me. I flirted with her a little (maybe too much) but I think she got uncomfortable. That's when she told me about the A. That was the last thing she said and I made sure I left asap so that I didn't break down in front of her. Now today, she sent me an email to let me know that her phone was lost and she would be unavailable until she found it and she wished me a good weekend as I am going out of town on business for the day tomorrow. Would she do this if it was really over?

All of these mixed signals are hard to interpret and though I think she is serious, I also think she may be confused and unsure, and just blocking her feelings from the pain of me saying the D word. I want to tell her about the D Remedy, and try to buy some time to put it to use before she files. She knows I regret threatening the D, but I also think she may go through with it out of shear desperation. Before I threatened the D, she was very committed to our M and I know we wouldn't be here if I hadn't. On the other hand, our communication has been terrible and our fighting has taken it's toll on us both. She is my best friend and the love of my life, and I would do anything to save our M. I wish one of us had stumbled onto D Busting a long time ago before we got to this point! I want to slow down the momentum on her decision with the hopes that she will see we can put these principles to use together, and if not I will do them myself. Should I tell her of the book/method or just try convince her to wait on the D until we have thought it out a bit more? It's only been a few weeks and I am certain she is only thinking of the D to stop the fighting. D busting is such obvious good sense, I can't believe I didn't think of these principles sooner on my own! How can I convince her to delay this process without being too pushy? Should I tell her about the D Remedy to see if she is game, or just do it on my own? Should I call her to tell her about it? Help!

[Sara]

Welcome to the board, you will find a lot of warm, friendly people here. The first thing you need to do is chill. Didn't she say something about you can't call her this weekend. So don't call. You say you're reading the books? That's good. Keep reading. Also read everything you can of the resources on this board.

The way I see it you have 2 problems. The most immediate problem is that you have driven her away with your fighting. So the books will give you some principles of how to entice her back. It's a slow process. Be prepared to wait.

If you get past that problem, then you need to work on your communication. I do have a solution for that, but really, it won't help you til you solve problem number one. For info on learning how to communicate effectively and heal your marriage, see http://www.retrouvaille.org.

So start out slow, do your research, read your books, and entice her back if you can.

[Mr. Hindsight]

Thanks Sara. Yes I've read nearly half of D Busting at the bookstore, but purchased D Remedy as it seemed more fitting for the urgency of our sitch. Have read more than half the book already today, but I do realize that the process takes time and I will be going back through it and applying more methodically after I finish the first read tomorrow. The problem with us has always been that when we are "on" we are "on" like fire, but when we fight, we fight nasty, and the recovery gets harder and harder. I think it's a buildup of bad habits that formed with us early on as she was just leaving her first marriage when we met. She was dealing with guilt, and I grew impatient and resentful that our great relationship was plagued by past "baggage". We love each other like crazy, but we have been making each other crazy with all of the intensity and the aftermath that has built up from past arguments. Every argument starts with one of us going on the defense and the other jumping right into fight mode. Then we just keep going until one of us says something really nasty and we are shouting. She pins it all on me, and I have done the same to her, while we both claim the other is controlling. I think it's both of us and I have offered my apologies and acknowledged my role in things, but she has yet to be voluntarily accountable for her half of the arguments (shut downs, interruptions, put downs and eye rolling while I repeat myself until I am shouting it and threatening to walk out) She says she doesn't see the light at the end of the tunnel and that we will never get past the old hurts and move on to a better way of communication. I am determined that we will, as we are both very capable. The information I have read on this site and in the books is better than anything we learned from the two counselors we saw a couple of years ago.

Was thinking of buying her a copy of the book too, and asking her if she will consider holding off on the final decision until we have had a chance to read it and understand how to apply it, though it's more difficult with her staying away and not having been home since the day she left. Good idea or is that pushing? She said Monday she is seeing about an annulment though I doubt we are elible from the research I have done.

[delia]

Hi Hindsight--

I couldn't resist such a very direct cry for help! I can't think of anything original to say at this hour of the night, but here are some suggestions written by a successful DB'er. I think I can safely say that this list was the first thing I ever read that gave me any real hope.

Oh, and I'm with Sara about the retrouvaille. I think that it helped her tremendously--and might be especially useful where there are problems in communicating and meeting one another's needs.



JenJam's Top Ten DB Tips:

1. Don't panic. No-one ever made a great decision when in panic. You WILL panic, it's natural, but take NO ACTION when you are in that state. You have to do whatever it takes to calm down before you can tackle ANYTHING.

2. Don't depair. No-one ever got divorced in a week. Divorce, although too easy these days still take time. you DO have time to turn things about.

3. You first step is not to rebuild your R. Of course it's your ultimate aim but it's not going to happen first. Your very first step is to put the seed of doubt in WAS's mind. They have been unhappy and they consider D to be the answer. It's your job to show them that maybe there is an alternative. And I stress show. There is little you can do to talk them out of this beyond sympathising with their unhappiness and saying that IF D will make them happy then you won't stand in their way. If they are receptive to that, you could go further and say something like "we have had many good times together. Please think about this and make sure it really will make you happy. It's a lot to throw away".

4. Once you have said this back off and let them consider it. They need time. Your next step is GAL - no begging, crying or anger AT ALL. Your task is now part 2 of sowing the seeds of doubt about D - SHOWING WAS that things can be different. Now is the time to step back, put aside your ego and all thoughts of how unfair it all is (that just leads to bitterness, which is poison to a M) and REALLY look at yourself and decide if you are worthy of being WAS's spouse. I agree a M breakdown is rarely one sided but at this juncture it's more useful to look at your contribution. Look at yourself. Under a microscope. Decide if you've changed - are you happy with yourself, for you? Make changes. Now is the time for 180's. This stage also takes a long time too.

5. Time, time, time - it really IS on your side. The situation will not resolve as quickly as you hope. Don't compare your situation in terms of time with others'. It's very tempting to say "well, their situation is similar to mine and it took them 6 months so it will take me 6 months". Each situation is unique and needs its own time frame.

6. Set your goals and decide on your first signs. This part took me a couple of months to really "get". I had to REALLY read chapter 6 of DR from "I'm discouraged" then go and review my goals before I saw any results.

7. Develop a duck's back - water slides off it. Patience + lack of panic = success.

8. Set goals for yourself as well as the R. Decide on what you want to achieve for you alone and reward your success. I know this sounds like step 4 again but it's more a case of making the changes rather than lamenting how awful you are. (I felt awful about myself for some time - bad and guilty. I did me no favours whatsoever, ended up with me feeling resentment. Much better to look forward than back - as Michelle says, look for solutions and take action)

9. Keep in mind that your actions could be frightening to WAS - you are not reacting in the way they wanted. They had this D all mapped out in their head and it's not panning out the way they thought. This has the added benefit that it leads them to think "if this isn't going the way I planned then maybe it isn't right", but it will take them a LONG TIME to come to this conclusion, to let go of their D comfort blanket. You can help them by being consistent with the positive changes. If you revert back to the you they find unacceptable then they feel perfectly justified in continuing with the D.

10. This is going to be tough on you. In the ideal world, couples in crisis would sit down together and negotiate together and accept that change was possible. In reality, you are very unlikely to resolve your problem in this way, almost certainly not in the early stages. You are not going to have the luxury of a spouse who will listen to you and accept what you say.
You are going to be in extreme pain. You have to find something to soothe this. To have your WAS would work like a shot, but you ain't going to get this in a hurry. Do whatever it takes to comfort yourself - write a diary, see friends, go places, take the kids out if you have them, take exercise - anything. Your aim is to find something which makes you say "well, the rest of my life may be turning to sh*t but at least this part of it's OK". It acts as a time out for you and relieves the stress.

Best wishes! I hope that you'll find help here with us.

[Mr. Hindsight]

Thanks Delia. Trying to remain calm, but the guilt and fear are the hardest things to deal with (besides missing my W like crazy-all she took was her clothes and I am stuck here with the rest of our life while she tries to block it out from the other side of town as she tries to get over me). The first week I felt like I was talking to a stranger-her entire demeanor had changed, and even the language she used to speak to me. Lately she has been sounding more like herself again, but still is standoff-ish about the whole thing. She has told me recently that she misses me and loves me, but it hasn't led to anything but that. I know if I can get her to come home, we could actually work through our problems with the D Busting and possibly the retreat that Sara mentioned. How much does something like that cost?

[mkultra]

Delia is right. You may push her away if you do anything in panic mode. Your urgency right now sounds justified but just think how it is easy to mistrust someone who is pleading or tantruming. You can delay the D in other ways. Each hour that passes may be difficult but think of this day, this week, this month as a small piece of investment int he rest of your life. We have all made mistakes and had some successes so read about them and use them as your new resource.

[Mr. Hindsight]

You said I could delay the D in other ways...other than the two month waiting period once it's filed, what else do you suggest? I know the largest part of her decision is that she truly believes we can't stop arguing and that she is somehow a failure and will never be good for me. She told me she is resigning herself to a life of loneliness, meaning she doesn't want to move on, but just feels she should. Should I tell her of D Busting or just keep quiet until she says she wants to work things out?

[mkultra]

It is my opinion that DB is like rehab, the person needs to go to it on their own. There are other tapes and workshops that couples can do together. I left the DR out after hiding it for a few weeks but my H did not pick it up and he got very mistrustful of my 180's. He even pointed out that it did not matter if I got organized, lost weight, ate healthy, etc. He acted like AHA! the jig is up. You can tell her that you are glad that she came into your life and that you will not move towards a divorce. But more importantly, try to avoid any conversation in regards to the relationship or any impending D. Keep all conversations based on anything but the relationship. Don't say anything about love. Remember to act like a beginner. You would not persue a person you just started dating like that. They would run away, so do not do that now.

[Sara]

Mr. Hindsight,

The retreat is pretty inexpensive. It is sponsored by the Catholic Church, so they keep the cost low, and all the people who present at Retrouvaille are volunteers. They ask for a contribution at the end. The choice of how much to pay is up to you. They do not turn anyone away due to money. Nor do they preach Catholic doctrine. They are trying to heal marriages because it makes the world a better place for all.

My husband and I were on the brink of separation in December, 2006. We had an ugly argument that really looked like the end. It was in public at a restaurant. On the way home as we both sat in silence, I just threw out "I heard that there is a marital retreat that helps people who are having trouble. I think we should go." And he said, "OK." Neither of us knew what it was.

We attended our weekend in January, and we did all the post sessions in February and March. At the last session they gave us a certificate of completion. During all that time we were slowly improving. And the improvements have continued since. Now I can honestly say that we are happily married, and I don't believe either of us will stray again.

I'm not happy that my husband had an affair. But the result of the affair was a dramatic improvement in both our marriage and our lives. I know that it would not have happened without the crisis.

[saffie]

Mr Hindsight,

I have been reading your posts etc..

You are in the right place and with Sara and Delia et al you are getting some really good advice.

Just one thing I was wondering about - why did your W's first marriage break down? I just thought that the reasons that that happened might be relevant in helping you decide what actions to take in trying to save your marriage.

Saffie