Stillme & the Plan

[oldtimer]

Nomopo,

I was talking about this: "But as for "presenting" the trip to H....? He can/will jump to the AFFAIR reason unless I lay some heavy groundwork. So I'll tell the kids I'm visiting a girlfriend I met on the computer (We just had this convo last night when S said I was on the computer 'all the time', and I said that I talked to people on the computer who are having a hard time & trying to figure things out, just like me.) I DON'T want to make this trip about a new (dating/affair) R, and can only believe nothing good can come of it. There'll be a time & place for the mysterious/interest in/from Someone Else, but this is not it. "

I guess to me this sounds like the aim is to get the fact that her trip would be innocent across to H through the kids. This relies on H pumping the kids for info about her. Not that Still can control her H's actions, but it would probably best for all if the other parent's private life was altogether a restricted topic with respect to the kids. If the kids volunteer something, fine. A non-commital "uh-huh" reply is fine. But, the parent instigated probing follow-ups, leading questions, and so on to get info on the other parent seem to me to be the troublesome bits.

So, rather than encourage that kind of behavior in H (who has already demonstrated horrible judgment by asking the kids to LIE), it seems Still would be better off saying something like: "H, I am going to wherever with A and B. These are the dates. I told you this directly because I think it important not to rely on our kids to carry info back and forth."

[Nomopo]

Got it. Thanks.

[stillme]

Yes and No.

The point IS that I don't want H to know my plans. We don't "share" our plans/lives, we don't make casual convo about ANYTHING, and haven't for months. He already thinks/tries to keep a kind of control over me (ya want examples? I've got plenty), he has comments & ugliness to say about whatever, and remember I "deserve" this attitude and his actions. If I told him directly "I'm going to ...w/friends", why would he believe me? I'm a liar and an actress, remember?

Plus, the point is I am NOT TALKING to him. If it's not about the kids. . . right? Why would I start this convo - opening up channels I just said were closed, knowing it will go ugly, knowing he won't believe me anyway?

H has NOOOOO respect for me and will jump to the "obvious" AFFAIR/WHORE one - I must be crushed by his A, right? and out to reciprocate the behavior. And that allows (what's a better word?) him the final excuse/incentive to push past whatever (fear, whatever) has been holding him back from filing for D.

My "telling the kids" was just that. I was going to (have to) tell them something about my trip. I've never told them to NOT tell H stuff (nor, o/c to LIE about anything) and knowing their general talkitiveness, I thought their chatter was the better way to get the particulars (as little as I was going to tell them) to H IF he was interested.

I'll think & re-think it some more, tho.

[C_K]

Still
Your H sounds like my W , she thinks she can do what she wats and once she gets her s$it together ( her words ) can just re enter our lives without question.
Somehow he needs to have it driven home that the choices he makes now may just be permanent.

Take care now

[stillme]

Thanks Dave. But H thinks that, once he get his sh*t together, he can just file for D then - when HE's ready, and not a day sooner - ESP if it might be a hardship or hurting thing for me in the meantime. And, for what it's worth, I think his true motivating factors in NOT filing are: (a) Rsponsibility - He has been trying for months to get me to "do this" WITH him, or jointly, or any way where it would not be solely HIM as the "man who broke up the family"; (b) Fear - He KNOWS this is wrong, that we were not "irretrievable", that commitment & work were what was needed; He's a "Family" guy & LOVED the "being M'd" part; he's so AFRAID of taking this (D) step; and (c) Financial - He HATES the thought of paying L fees to end this. Tried to get me to a Mediator; suggested we "go to the courthouse together & file jointly" to save money; said, even, there were papers we could get online & process the D ourselves. Are you kidding me?
! He's saying this to a woman who spent 18 years working for the very people he's trying to get me to avoid representing me in this HUGE decision?! Does he think all my brains fell out with my tears?

Sorry. Venting a bit. Feeling a bit low this morn. but gotta get outa the house soon, so I'll be fine in a bit. Friend-A (remember: a Civillian, lol) told me I just needed to "stop trying" and give up, and think only of me. I was trying to explain the Mysterious GALing vs out-and-out Dating, and she said it was too "manipulative". I know she only wants me not to be hurt any more, trying to help, but so not what I needed to hear last night. She has said to Friend-P that I was "in denial" that H ws having an A. I said I was never so much "in denial" as not focusing on it. I always said it was a probability. If H had not already had some sort of A (I was betting on a ONS last yr tho - which may or may not still hold true), he was bound to. I knew it; C told me he was looking for it. I couldn't control it; and didn't chose to dwell on it. Now that I know, it's not crushign me - and friends don't understand my POV any more.

Bleh, talking is not helping. Gotta go anyway. Got a private P.session at 10, then errands - including the mall (D is estatic! She dreamed she went to a mall that was 10 stories high last night & woke up in such a good mood! lol) to buy more summer shorts - and for my SD trip. Oh, and still hve those overdue library books. lol.

be back later.
thanks all.
And I'm sorry I keep missing the late-night talk-fests going on around here. I feel so out-of-the-loop.

[stillme]

Oh, and pilot/Friend-P was 'fishing around' last night (when I saw him at the gym) about w/not I would be interested in meeting his friend (another ex-Pro-wakeboarder & -partner in a nationally known wakeboard camp) as that friend asked if Friend-P knew any single women. . . I laughed it off, and when he questioned further, just said "I'm not single". But - geez, another possibility. . . tho I was never the Sporty-Spice type girl. Hmmm, how hard could wakeboarding be. . .? lol

[Gone Dancin']

Hey still,

Whatever the motivation to not file might be, the fact that he hasn't is still a plus. I commend you on not letting your emotions get the best of you here and decide to file yourself (like I did -- and am so regretting now). The longer the process takes and the more you can stall it, the better your chances are. As you know, time is on your side.

Friend-A (remember: a Civillian, lol) told me I just needed to "stop trying" and give up, and think only of me. I was trying to explain the Mysterious GALing vs out-and-out Dating, and she said it was too "manipulative".

I agree that Friend-A means well, but doesn't understand that you need support for the decision YOU'VE made to continue to fight for you M. It isn't anyone else's choice but yours on where you go from here. And yes, mysterious GALing may be "manipulative", but like Michele says, we manipulate ALL the time and everyday to get people to do what we'd like them to do. Manipulation has taken on a negative connotation, but that isn't to say that all manipulation is bad. If you're not hurting someone in your efforts, then how can it be considered bad? Don't let this opinion steer you in a new direction if you don't want to go that way (and I know you won't).

If H had not already had some sort of A (I was betting on a ONS last yr tho - which may or may not still hold true), he was bound to. I knew it; C told me he was looking for it.

This is interesting. At what point to C say this to you (meaning where in the R/M were you?) and what made C believe this was the case?

Bleh, talking is not helping.

You don't think so? I think getting this stuff out, esp with those of us who can relate to you (unlike the Civilians!) is a healthy and therapeutic thing. It might make you think about it more, but bottling it up and/or only discussing it with the Civilians isn't good IMO. You're venting, and you've got to do that somewhere, right?

And I'm sorry I keep missing the late-night talk-fests going on around here. I feel so out-of-the-loop.

Don't be sorry. When you find time we'll be here! You're definitely not out of the loop -- we think about you and refer to you everyday!

Pro wakeboarder, eh? First a 21 yr old, now a stud wakeboarder -- you must be one hot commodity! The market will definitely have its hands full if you ever end up in it!

GD

[SunnySeason]

Does he think all my brains fell out with my tears?

I'm sorry Still, but you kill me

Between you & the others on this board, I'm set for the day in the getting some laughs department.

I understand what you're saying & have no doubt what-so-ever that you do right by your children. I know you know better than to use them in any way/shape or form & wouldn't ask them to lie or use them to transfer info to H, but want to tell them where you'll be w/out giving details.

In a perfect world, we could calmly discuss our plans, etc. w/ our estanged S's. I think you have to make due w/what you have at the moment until the sitch calms down, & it will. Emotions are running high right now & I agree that prolly a nice discussion w/ your H is not possible at this time.

We all worry about the kids & want to serve up reminders that the worst possible thing you can do is to use them in any way, or not consider them 1st. I was reminded of this early on & it was duly noted.

And yes, I am reminded by those not familiar w/DBing to throw in the towel, leave the jerk 1st, etc. I have to tell them that I, too, can be quite a jerk (or was, in anycase).

I've been through this b/f & know it hits a disagreeable patch when there's a change thrown in, just as happens typically when you get to settling the financial, if it does end in D. Not fun stuff.

Hang in there J, your emotions will settle & you'll soon be able to detach & not feel so raw & icky.

Your Pal Sunny

[C_K]

(((j)))

GD and sunny have made good points so I dont need to add anything , other than I hope you have a great day and try and push worrying about your sitch in to the background a bit.

Dave

[stillme]

Thanks GD:

Whatever the motivation to not file might be, the fact that he hasn't is still a plus.

Yeah, that's one of the (few) 'positives' (un-negatives, really) I hold on to.

I told Friend-A this morning that I just needed her SUPPORT and not her opinion for right now. I KNOW she loves me and doesn't want me to hurt or get blindsided - but I don't have the energy to expend on explaining myself/my motivations/reasonings & getting her to understand my POV right now. Her (and others') negativity and opinions contrary to what I believe is what I need to dog (stand for my M, no matter what is going on, no matter how long it takes, until I decide otherwise) is wearing on my PMA (explained that) and takes away from the focusing on me I need to be doing. I just need her to be there for me, supporting me. She, o/c, agreed to do that.

In about April(?) (after H had moved out?) H talked to C for about 4min. when he went to kids' first session (just to be introduced to her & to show united-front to the kids by us) & she asked him (knowing beforehand that he didn't think the kids should/needed to see a C) 'Is there anything you want to tell me b/f I take your kids in?'. She told me next day at my session that H was (1) VERY angry; (2) VERY frightened; (3) asked if one of H's parents had 'emotionally abandoned' him and when I said 'yes', she said H was obviously D'ing me (who had also emotionally abandoned him during the M) since he felt he could not D his own parent; and (4) said H was obviously looking for an emotional attachment/PA & did I want to be the one to provide it, or was I willing to let someone else take that position? She said I was to try to give H's PA LL b/c for darn sure he was looking for/needing it (had been w/o it for a long time by then) & if he met a woman the next day you could bet that woman would be flirting w/him, they would be touching, they would be kissing & they would be making out on every surface they could find. (I tried to do wht she suggested and H did not take kindly to it.)

Pro wakeboarder, eh? First a 21 yr old, now a stud wakeboarder -- you must be one hot commodity! The market will definitely have its hands full if you ever end up in it!

I keep telling y'all I'm hot! (or, as H so nicely put it post-bomb: You are NOT an unattractive woman. - bleh!)