Mixed Signals - the roller coaster edition

[catfan]

Well it's after midnight and I'm still up. Time to walk down to the beach where I find peace, where I feel God right next to me, where I feel the most comfortable just being. Maybe I'll be really, really lucky and see a sea turtle up on the beach making a nest. That would be WAY cool.

Well off to my thinking spot.

[catfan]

Well it's after midnight and I'm still up. Time to walk down to the beach where I find peace, where I feel God right next to me, where I feel the most comfortable just being. Maybe I'll be really, really lucky and see a sea turtle up on the beach making a nest. That would be WAY cool.

Well off to my thinking spot.

[catfan]

So I spent the weekend in my own little pity party. It was pathetic and on Sunday I realized how pathetic it was. But I also didn't fight it and let it runs it's course. I won't get into the reason why I was on this party but they were a bit selfish in some regards.

Sunday night I went to see Lifehouse and Goo Goo Dolls. Originally my wife was supposed to go with me but after my "attack" on the 4th she backed out. She's been getting more and more distance since June 22nd when I got laid off. To the point it seemed she didn't want anything to do with me. So I went dark on her after the movie Wednesday. By Saturday I was deep into the pity party then that night she sent me a text about D10 eating fish. We traded a couple of texts then nothing. Sunday from the concert I sent her a text saying "sorry u decided not 2 come. You would have loved lifehouse. Ck them out on itunes." She replied immediately, "will do". Then a short time later D9 sends me a text "Mommy is glad u are enjoying, sorry she missed it".

Well yesterday morning I went to pick the girls up from the house because it's my week with them. My wife asked me if we could talk about the separation agreement this week because she needs to know what to expect given the A/C died and the estimate is $6200 to replace. I said yes ready anytime. So we settled on Wednesday evening. D9 asked me about the concert and I told her but really saying it to my wife, it was great and if Aunt Catfan (my sister who went with me) like it, Mommy would have loved it. My wife got a nice smile on her face that she was trying to hid and said I'm glad you enjoyed it. (I suspect she really thought I was going with another woman. Since she told me to find someone else to go with.)

This all lead into a brief R discussion. I asked her had we started with forgiveness like she had said she thought we should do in a conversation about 6 weeks ago. (Odd that one was spurred by the sep agreement too.) She said I guess a little. I told her well I want to let the past be the past and focus on the future and to do that it all starts with forgiveness and I have to forgive myself first. She nodded approvingly and the conversation grew more positive from there.

We chatted last night about my meeting yesterday afternoon with my boss, the guy who laid me off and is trying to help me find another job. She also sent me a text earlier in the day that I missed.

So I'm not sure somethings happening here, it feels very positive but I don't want to get any hopes or expectations up. I really feel like she's getting closer to wanting to work on things. So my strategy is to sit back and let her drive everything right now, while I just show love, respect and kindness.

Man it's going to be a crazy week!

[catfan]

Yep a crazy week. We just had a not so good phone conversation. Basically my take, she's been leading me on so she can get the separation agreement done. I really didn't think that she was doing that based on a few other things I haven't posted but apparently I have been very, very wrong all along.

So I get to go to bed on a real down note because what came out of that phone conversation is she wants the agreement yesterday. She gave the impression she'll probably file as soon as she can in November because she just "wants to be happy and we can't return to before".

She honestly believes we can be good close friends through all of this and afterwards. Sorry I just can't do that after all the rejection, after being told "I don't love you any more", after all the sacrifice and pain of the last 9 months, after agreeing to move out of our home and be away from our family, our children. I did all of that for her so she could find her peace and happiness and hopefully I could as well and we'd be back together.

[Dom R]

I'm sorry.

On one hand... what she's saying may not be true. From accounts i've read from other WAS's, they flip their minds a lot. at the time, she may have been sincere in enjoying the time together. yet when she told you she "just wants stuff complete", she may have been telling you what she felt at that second.

On the other hand... it may not matter. words may not change her mind.
What some people might suggest, if you want to potentially avoid her filing, or at least shorten recovery time, either for your marriage or just yourself... is to go dark now.

IF she blames you for her being unhappy... see who she blames when you are no longer around.
The last memories she has of you two together, were positive (i think?) So going dark at this time, would be good timing, if thats the way you wanted to go, i think.
This would have to be a pitch black, "you want me out of your life to 'be happy'? ok, I'm gone. be happy, then. talk to my lawyer if you need anything legal.".

This would be dark for months. probably all the way through november.


ORRRR... you can try to buckle up, and stay on the rollercoaster until her mood swings again.


I'm still on the "i think she's just toying with me, through all the divorce filings" negotiations myself. Getting sick of the lies.
When will they learn that lies dont make us happier, but just piss us off more?
sigh.

[catfan]

Well it looks like I was over reacting once again. Well at least I am not doing this on a regular basis like the old me.

We sat down last night and I gave her my proposal for our separation agreement. She really didn't argue back on any point but didn't say she was in complete agreement either. She asked to have a few days to process it all then we'll talk again. All in all it was a real good discussion.

Earlier in the day I went to see my counselor for the first time since late March. She and I talked about the situation and she felt it was a little encouraging given how things have progressed since Mother's Day. But she thinks my wife is using me as a "safety net" or "keeping me in her back pocket". I was not convinced that is the case but I listened carefully. In the end her advice was to focus on being the best parent I could be, focus on me and limit any interaction to the kids or absolutely necessary business. Her reason was to give my wife the space to feel a loss, to feel a want or desire for interaction etc. Basically to lovingly detach and go dark.

So after my wife and I got through the discussion about the separation agreement I brought up us. For the first hour I did a lot of talking and she did most of it for the next hour. I wish I could recall every word of it but the end result was both of us feeling a lot better about ourselves, our family, our future and our relationship. What I found almost shocking was she reveal she finally understood how I never could understand her when she would say "I'm not happy". She finally realized how vague that was and how all my actions since Nov 05 to today where me attempting to help her and us. She finally verbalized her feelings by telling me how she lost any sense of her "self", how she felt like a failure as a mother, a wife and at work. She also felt very smothered by me and our relationship because we spent all of our time together. (Remember we lived abroad, worked together, had few friends and no outside hobbies.) There was only an us and not me, her and us. You could say we were like two circles that completely overlapped each other so there wasn't two circles that slightly overlapped but just one. In a healthy relationship the circles would overlap a lot like the Mastercard logo. Two individuals that also are connected enough to make one but maintain their sense of self.

So for her she had to do this in order to save herself and I am now really realizing just how bad off she was at that point. She explained it really as a process that she is going through and still not finished. First she had to breakaway so she could see herself as an individual. Next she had to work on defining herself as a mother, then an employee/corp executive followed by re-establishing her outside friendships and lastly will be defining her romantic relationship. When done she'll have finally defined herself completely. Right now she's working in outside friendships, friendships that she holds outside of me and our relationship. IOW not couples friends. She's doing this by reconnecting with a couple of friends from high school and some old work friends. This makes me nervous but what she said next really helped me settle a bit. She wants to get to a point where she can look at me and be able to work on us. She really hopes that she gets to the point and this is why re-creating our friendship is important to her. Yes she did admit in all of this that she would like to fall back in love with me in fact her exact words with a smile were "that would be really nice." But she was also clear in stating that it might come to a point where she realizes she doesn't want to pursue our relationship and will part ways. Right now from what I take from all of this is that she is leaning "our" way but not a great deal.

She also said she could understand how I perceived some of her actions as taking advantage of me and that's why she's hesitant to ask for my help on things. She really doesn't want me to think in those terms. She also admitted that she has a lot of fear that all we will do if we reconcile is "go back to what we were before." I've told her repeatedly I do not want that and do not intend to go back to that.

Finally she admitted to seeing some of my changes but stopped short this time to saying she has seen and accepted that I have completely changed from that angry, bitter, jackass I was becoming. But she's encouraged by some of what she's seen. She eluded to that fact that my regular backslides into R talk make her question whether or not I have changed because I come across as angry during these discussions.

So there my roller coaster continues but I really, really know what I need to do know. First, absolutely no more R talk, second be positive, friendly, and kind, (from my recent just show love idea), continue to find, foster and enjoy my interests that don't need to include her, be a super dad at all times and definitely around her, and finally continue to work on anger issues especially those regarding the kids. (Previously I was a bit of an authoritarian with the kids and didn't have a lot of patience with them. Funny I had infinite patience with other kids just not my own. I've come a long, long way with the kids.)

It's been a good day today and we have had almost no interaction. She emailed me a short question about our property division but it was a simple clarification question. Beyond that zero contact. I plan to keep it that way and let her have the time and space to do her thing. I'll go do my thing too and enjoy it too.

What a F-n roller coaster this week. But I called it on Monday, I knew this would be a real up and down week and it has held up to it!

[Dom R]

wow.

nice talk.. makes lots of sense about her "having to find herself"... except that there's no reason she has to go through a whole separation agreement to do that. that's major wrong.

also, the whole "reconnecting with high school friends" stuff.. is GREAT!.. unless its with male friends. You kinda hint that you might be worried about that, but dont state it directly.


"recreating your friendship" sounds great.

Doing it, while she dates old high school boyfriends... is just using you as a safetly net, like your counsellor said.

FYI: i dunno if i posted to you about "most affairs break up within 6 months" figure?

The biggest EXCEPTION to that is... affairs with old school boyfriends.

I think she maybe hasn't fully committed herself to dating some other guys yet.
If there's some way you can think about getting her to agree to not "date" other men, while having that still be "safe, non 'marriage'" type talk... it might be a good idea.

Gads.. I am so sick and tired of unscrupulous, immoral, "separated, means I can go date/screw whoever I want!" women right now. sigh...

[catfan]

I don't think that's going on but I am not fooling myself either. No matter what we are at least moving forward in some regards. Better than not moving at all or backwards!

[789]

No matter what we are at least moving forward in some regards. Better than not moving at all or backwards!

That is all one can ask for sometimes in these situations, sounds like you two got a lot of issues presented today that neither one of you may have realized before today. That is always a positive step.

[catfan]

When we finally do sit down and have these really good conversations/discussions a lot of things get cleared up and we both walk away feeling much better about ourselves, each other and our relationship. Funny the two really good discussions we've had have come after discussions about our separation agreement. Also both times she's opened up a great deal and felt good about it. Now I wish she could look at it like that and realize when she's open, honest and we have good sound discussions and not overly emotional ones things get better. I hope out of all of this she can realize it's OK to open up and express your true feelings, thoughts, hopes, anger, fears, wants and wishes. That bottling them up does no good.