Character, Faith, and Patience IIII (I think!)

[789]

From everything I have read here, books, listening to people, yes I do. Will it happen, no one knows.
But you yourself just said "I have faith good things CAN happen, which is why I won't give up,". So you are answering yourself you really believe it also.
Continue your thoughts that it can, just realize it is not right now. She thinks your holding it up, but she hasn't served you yet so she sounds a little bit confused. Use that time to your advantage.

[JR2007]

From everything I have read here, books, listening to people, yes I do. Will it happen, no one knows.
But you yourself just said "I have faith good things CAN happen, which is why I won't give up,". So you are answering yourself you really believe it also.
Continue your thoughts that it can, just realize it is not right now. She thinks your holding it up, but she hasn't served you yet so she sounds a little bit confused. Use that time to your advantage.

I have the original paperwork, but that was just for temporary orders. Maybe she just doesn't understand that those aren't the actual papers. I'd love to be able to use this time to my advantage, but I don't have any advantage to be gained. I thought I could at least get her to meet with me and talk with me a little so we could clear some things up. But, she won't even budge that much.

She thinks if she gives in one inch, that I win. I don't get that - if our family stays intact, we ALL win. We all lose in divorce, and the one who loses the worst is S4!!! That's what I can't believe. I can't believe she won't give it a tiny chance for his sake. To keep his parents together. I mean, I know I wasn't there for her in many ways, but is it really worth divorce? Does she really believe I did this to her on purpose? I really hope she understands that I didn't.

If she really wants it done, maybe she'll just come talk to me a few times. I'd call her, but with the PO in place, I can't even do that. So, we continue to wait...

[789]

All of us cannot believe what is going on in out situations. Especially us here with kids involved. Unfortunately look at the divorce rate in this country and all the kids involved. A lot of spouses are doing this, not just ours.

[sadhearted]

Believe none of what they say and half of what they do

Keep having to tell myself this. A lot today!

[JR2007]

Believe none of what they say and half of what they do

Keep having to tell myself this. A lot today!

Yeah, that's true. So, when do you get the truth?

My W said some very good things in the last meeting with the Pastor. Then yesterday denied all of it!

So, I have to not believe the positive stuff as well as the negative stuff.

The hard thing as well is her telling everyone what a rotten person I am. That's not very fair, but I guess if it makes her feel better it's OK. It doesn't matter one lick what other people think of me. I'd move right back into that house with her and deal with all those neighbors who are judging me. I'd go right back to her family outings, because I love her family. I'd bring her right back to my family outings because my family loves her and misses her and they'd let bygones be bygones in a heartbeat, her family would too.

There's just no sense to any of this. So, I'm going to stop thinking about it and focus on what's coming up ahead. A lot of work, and I think that'll be good for us regardless of the direction of M goes.

[sadhearted]

Yeah I don't know when you can start believing them again.

It's much easier to ignore the bad and hold onto the good.

Yeah I have no idea what my H has told people about me but I think that's just him making me out to be the bad guy and him the good one. We all know it takes 2. I'm with you if he comes back I don't care what he's told others. If you think about it if they make us out to be horrible people then take us back??? What must those people be thinking of them for taking us back?

Absolutely no sense. No sense in ripping a family apart and putting the kids thru this. We've all learned from this and want our S's to give us another chance. Problem is we can't control that. And it hurts to know that we've seen the light but may never get the chance to prove it. Just doesn't seem right.

[JR2007]

Because we're not horrible people. We didn't provide something to our spouse that they needed. That's being HUMAN! Making mistakes is human, forgiving is divine. That's why giving forgiveness is so hard for our spouse, they have to stretch to do something that might be uncomfortable. And they think by doing it they're giving in to us. I wish they'd remember when they made mistakes and needed forgiveness and requested it of others. It's like they have done no wrong. We just want the same consideration they got when they needed repentance and forgiveness. Is that really so much to ask? I don't believe it to be, but who knows.

[catfan]

Because we're not horrible people. We didn't provide something to our spouse that they needed. That's being HUMAN! Making mistakes is human, forgiving is divine. That's why giving forgiveness is so hard for our spouse, they have to stretch to do something that might be uncomfortable. And they think by doing it they're giving in to us. I wish they'd remember when they made mistakes and needed forgiveness and requested it of others. It's like they have done no wrong. We just want the same consideration they got when they needed repentance and forgiveness. Is that really so much to ask? I don't believe it to be, but who knows.

So JR when are you going to forgive yourself?

Now getting that out of the way, yes I believe it can be saved. Why, for two reasons, her agreeing to meet with the pastor and you and for going to the counseling session. What she said was defensive plain and simple. If she was completely done she wouldn't have done either. So there is a shred of hope, sure it's a really, really fragile and thin thread of hope but hope nonetheless. You've all to often pointed that out to me and indirectly you just did it again, thank you!

Oh and if you want some inspiration, you gave me some about 2 weeks ago. From that I have put my ring back on and she noticed. I told her it was my symbol to myself for what I believe and value most, faith, commitment, honesty and family unity.

[JR2007]

Because we're not horrible people. We didn't provide something to our spouse that they needed. That's being HUMAN! Making mistakes is human, forgiving is divine. That's why giving forgiveness is so hard for our spouse, they have to stretch to do something that might be uncomfortable. And they think by doing it they're giving in to us. I wish they'd remember when they made mistakes and needed forgiveness and requested it of others. It's like they have done no wrong. We just want the same consideration they got when they needed repentance and forgiveness. Is that really so much to ask? I don't believe it to be, but who knows.

So JR when are you going to forgive yourself?

Now getting that out of the way, yes I believe it can be saved. Why, for two reasons, her agreeing to meet with the pastor and you and for going to the counseling session. What she said was defensive plain and simple. If she was completely done she wouldn't have done either. So there is a shred of hope, sure it's a really, really fragile and thin thread of hope but hope nonetheless. You've all to often pointed that out to me and indirectly you just did it again, thank you!

Oh and if you want some inspiration, you gave me some about 2 weeks ago. From that I have put my ring back on and she noticed. I told her it was my symbol to myself for what I believe and value most, faith, commitment, honesty and family unity.

I have forgiven myself to a point. I haven't forgotten because I want to remember the pain. I want to remember the hurt so I NEVER repeat it. I know it's not in line with true forgiveness, but I can't forget yet. And my memory is weak right now, so I need the reminders.

I believe the things I've told you CatFan, I really do. I just didn't expect to hear such harsh words yesterday. It really threw me off, and I was shocked to hear that she still thinks we're in competition for our marriage AND I was shocked to hear her deny things she had said. She's also denying EVER waivering from her desire to divorce, which I know for a fact is not true, so does the Pastor, so does SHE, so do several of her friends. I am just in a bit of shock.

I know you go through major pullbacks quite a bit with your wife, and I've experienced a major one. I even told Jeff, I know a little how you feel now with this one. It was a major jolt to the system.

Then to hear that she is bad-mouthing me to strangers (more or less) that she knows I'll run into, is very hurtful too. I know she wants to hurt me to get me back for the years of pain she felt, so I'll take it while she wants to give it and hope she changes her mind at some point.

[catfan]

I have forgiven myself to a point. I haven't forgotten because I want to remember the pain. I want to remember the hurt so I NEVER repeat it. I know it's not in line with true forgiveness, but I can't forget yet. And my memory is weak right now, so I need the reminders.

I believe the things I've told you CatFan, I really do. I just didn't expect to hear such harsh words yesterday. It really threw me off, and I was shocked to hear that she still thinks we're in competition for our marriage AND I was shocked to hear her deny things she had said. She's also denying EVER waivering from her desire to divorce, which I know for a fact is not true, so does the Pastor, so does SHE, so do several of her friends. I am just in a bit of shock.

I know you go through major pullbacks quite a bit with your wife, and I've experienced a major one. I even told Jeff, I know a little how you feel now with this one. It was a major jolt to the system.

Then to hear that she is bad-mouthing me to strangers (more or less) that she knows I'll run into, is very hurtful too. I know she wants to hurt me to get me back for the years of pain she felt, so I'll take it while she wants to give it and hope she changes her mind at some point.

Yes it is all a serious shock to the system. But now you know it can and will happen and you'll be able to deal with it in the future. Well, deal with it as best you can. This is where I know I still need to do more work and now you do to. Controlling our emotional reactions to our wives actions and words. We can't allow them that control over us. We have to rein in our own emotions and get control of them because our wives know they control them right now.

Now the next thing to bring up, the saying "believe nothing that they say and only half of what they do." In your case I suspect this really is true because she's lashing out. Remember the lashing is all that pent up anger talking and probably not her truly deepest feelings. For me it looks like I can believe half or three quarters on both points. But I know she's hiding some things and not exactly lying about them but not telling the whole story either.

Lastly we both have the same fear about separation, we fear it is only strengthening their commitment to walking away. Man it sure feels that way doesn't it!

So what can we do? Keep DBing, be kind, considerate, confident and lovingly detached. In other words show them the new Catfan and JR2007. Hopefully they will then look and say that's the man I want, that's the man for me, that's the man I always saw in him. If not, well we will know we looked in at ourselves and made the changes to be better men. Then maybe someday someone else will enter our lives and realize what our wives failed to see.