cemar2 THe major reason is that the alternatives are often NOT nice Christian things.
Well, some might not be nice/christian but be smart enough to find the things that are christian. Being a christian does not assign a person to being door mat.
cemar2 THe major reason is that the alternatives are often NOT nice Christian things.
Well, some might not be nice/christian but be smart enough to find the things that are christian. Being a christian does not assign a person to being door mat.
Nice Guys are notoriously slow learners ... Their inclination is to hang on to belief systems that have proven to be consistently unworkable, yet are so embedded in their unconscious mind that to challenge them is tantamount to heresy. It is difficult for Nice Guys to consider doing something different, even when what they are doing isn't working.
The major reason is that the alternatives are often NOT nice Christian things.
Cemar, You did not completely read what Corri quoted from the book. Your comment about other things not being Christian was COMPLETELY off-base from the point of the sentence. You might think you were being funny but you were proving the exact point of the paragraph. You are hanging on so tightly to a belief system that IS NOT working for you that you cannot even see any other possibilities for success. You want success but it must come from your own preconceived idea of how it SHOULD happen You fail to understand that NO ONE here (that I can tell) disagrees with your aim for more and better sex with your wife. We only disagree with your approach to getting it. But you will fight us tooth and nail every time we start to challenge any of your ideas.
Here's an example: What if a man decides to send flowers to his girlfriend/wife every week in order to "make her happy" and "make her desire" to have sex with him. So he sends these flowers every week and nothing changes in his relationship. BUT he is so SURE that every woman WANTS to receive flowers that he keeps sending them and in turn begins to RESENT her for not appreciating the flowers like he THINKS she should. At the same time this very same woman has been asking this man to fix the creaking door in their house. He does not because he does not think it is important, is busy, etc.
So this man talks to you and you listen and you tell him that obviously this woman doesn't really care about flowers but she probably would appreciate him fixing the door. You might even explain the Love Languages idea and how her LL might be acts of service and not gifts. THEN this guy looks at you and negates everything you said because it challenges his belief system. He says that women LOVE flowers so he'll keep on sending the flowers and she will eventually act the way HE WANTS HER TO.
Can you see a problem with the man's approach or not?? Can you imagine that those flowers he sends will EVER get the reaction he wants?
FWIW a friend of mine had a boyfriend a few years ago that sent flowers to her at work every month. She later told me that the first couple of times was nice but that she eventually felt like it was too much, would have preferred getting them less often and more randomly and was feeling a bit put off by his approach!! I would guarantee that many other women would think it EXCEPTIONALLY sweet for the guy to do it every month. And still others would see it more neutrally and not as a negative as she did.
The POINT is that women have lots of different opinions on things as small as flowers and that having an expectation of how a woman SHOULD react to something you do is a lot of pressure to put on a woman and your relationship.
Last edited by fearless; 07/12/0712:28 PM.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
1) Are BOTH men's and women's needs equally important in a relationship? Yes. This is the BIGGEST problem. Most people (and they may not relalize it) actually elevate the women's needs above the man's, or they dismiss the male needs all together. The biggest hurdle us guys have to face is this general preception among women that THEIR needs are the REAL needs of marriage, sex is a minor thing. Also, to be equally important means that they must be unconditionally met. As soon as you set conditions, you have ELEVATED one persons needs above the other. 2) For a marriage to be on solid ground BOTH partners need to be getting their needs met and meeting the others needs? After thinking about this, I would say no. Heck the majority of people that stay married for life are in this boat. Perfect example would be my wifes parents, they clearly don't meet each others needs, but they will never divorce. So their marriage is solid (its not going to end), but their is not much good about it. In fact, if PM is right, MOST couples that stay married for life are in this boat, only the people that HAVE PM's get beyond having a crappy marriage. 3) Do you believe that these needs need to be completely and fully met for each other at ALL times? Of course not, why would anyone think this. Much of the time, yes. Showing good effort to TRY and meet needs, yes. 4) Do you know what your wife's communication needs are? If so, how do you know her needs – did she tell you or have you assumed? We have talked aobut it. She likes to talk, as long as it is not romantic or physical in any way. But at the same time, she does NOT want to be too close, she thinks that is weird for couples to be best friends. So she likes to talk, but she has a highly restrictive comfort zone as to HOW intimate that talk can be (she has been this way all along). She even commented one time that she likes me IN the room with her, like to watch TV, but she does not like to be close to me. Physical closeness makes her uncomfortable.
(To be clear I do not view men and women like this) I apologize if I missed that. So how do you view men? I see myself as completely normal, I have read the books and how they describe male needs and I pretty much FIT them. So what is the real male, and what does he need from marriage?
(To be clear I do not view men and women like this) I apologize if I missed that. So how do you view men? I see myself as completely normal, I have read the books and how they describe male needs and I pretty much FIT them. So what is the real male, and what does he need from marriage?
No apology needed for me. I was just concerned that you may miss what people are saying to you because of assumptions you are making. This is more about trying to help you.
As far as the "real" male (or "real" female for that matter), I try not to generalize too much because it seems like there are exceptions everywhere and it's better to understand the individual. You say that you fit the male needs but from the stereotypical descriptions of men, your need for desire from your wife seems a bit unusual because supposedly most men would just be happy with a willing and able partner. BUT IN MY OPINION I really don't care what the stereotype is or whether it's true for the majority. The fact is for you it IS important for a feeling of desire. The main issue I am curious about for you is to make sure that wanting of desire for your wife is simply THAT and not a way of getting SELF VALIDATION.
1) It's interesting that you feel that getting a man's needs seen as real is an issue because I can tell you from watching MANY marriages that it is just as common for a man's needs to be elevated. REGARDLESS of that, let's stick with your marriage. Do you FEEL your wife's needs have a higher elevation than your own? Has your wife explicitly stated that her needs for more important than yours? If not, why not bluntly ask her of she believes her needs are more important that yours?
(By the way an interesting article Raven sent me from MSN has married couples telling the secret to good marriages. One man married happily for 42 years said that he and his wife were told when they got married that EACH should give 60% and take 40%.
2) Okay...
3) Of course not, why would anyone think this. Well I had to ask because when you write I feel an intensity of neediness from you that is overwhelming at times. That may or may not be true in real life but I think you deserve to know the impression that you give off with your writing. Glad to know you do not expect constant meeting of needs.
4) So are you able to give her the communication she needs? Has she expressed that she feels she gets what she needs from you?
And seriously I appreciated that you directly answered my questions.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
You say that you fit the male needs but from the stereotypical descriptions of men, your need for desire from your wife seems a bit unusual because supposedly most men would just be happy with a willing and able partner.
I think this stereotype is the cause of many problems. After my W told me about reading the "just take care of him every now and then and he'll leave you alone" philosophy on her message board, I started looking around and that sentiment pops up in a lot of places. Perhaps it could be that CeMar's W was indoctrinated into this philosophy and is having a hard time expunging it.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I think this stereotype is the cause of many problems.
In my opinion that's why ALL stereotypes are such a problem. Even if they are true 50-80% of the time (which most aren't), what about the other 20-50% of that population? That's why as hard as it is, I believe in always listening to the individual over the stereotype.
As a woman that abhors shopping, the "women love shopping" stereotype drives me crazy. Mind you I know it's true for many women but I cannot stand it. I make do with clothes and shoes much longer than I should just because I hate it so much. My point is that if someone thought they would "please" me by sending me out to shop, they would be sorely mistaken.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Based on that last post of yours to fearless... I'm getting more of an understanding of your wife. Seriously, I think it might help if you posted more about your wife... in one way, she sounds a bit like Lou's wife.
You said there are times when she puts a moratorium on your sex. Does this happen often? Does she announce it, or does she wait for you to initiate before she tells you that sex is off limits for... (how long?)
I gave you a suggestion on a boundary, and what I thought you should do to get your wife's attention. I wasn't joking. I'm wondering if you considered it... if not, why not?
You say that you fit the male needs but from the stereotypical descriptions of men, your need for desire from your wife seems a bit unusual because supposedly most men would just be happy with a willing and able partner.
I think this stereotype is the cause of many problems. After my W told me about reading the "just take care of him every now and then and he'll leave you alone" philosophy on her message board, I started looking around and that sentiment pops up in a lot of places. Perhaps it could be that CeMar's W was indoctrinated into this philosophy and is having a hard time expunging it.
Chrome
yeah. but I don't think that philosophy is intended to "meet a need", but more of a "reasonable compromise".
supposedly most men would just be happy with a willing and able partner says who?? whomever it was...they are wrong.
fearless What if a man decides to send flowers to his girlfriend/wife every week in order to "make her happy" and..... At the same time this very same woman has been asking this man to fix the creaking door in their house. He does not because he does not think it is important, is busy, etc. This is reality Fearless
