My wife has not made a physical move of ANY kind on me in more then 11 years. If I stop moving on her, she will be RELIEVED, not made uncomfortable. Not sure what this 180 would do.
It is difficult for Nice Guys to consider doing something different, even when what they are doing isn’t working. THe major reason is that the alternatives are often NOT nice Christian things.
My wife has not made a physical move of ANY kind on me in more then 11 years. If I stop moving on her, she will be RELIEVED, not made uncomfortable. Not sure what this 180 would do.
Imagine that not making your wife uncomfortable what kind of a marriage would that be?
Seriously though it's not meant to be all about her reaction to it. It's about changing the relationship dynamic and the patterns from your side. It's about giving yourself a time without the overshadowing question of will she respond and the frustrations of rejection to work on your own stuff.
The sexual moratorium is just one part of Dr.Glovers ideas it isn't to be a stand alone thing, or a magic bullet. His book would explain it better than I ever could.
I will add that in his book Dr.Glover states that following his ideas will send some marriages to an overdue grave.
I understand from your writings that you are a practicing Christian. There is a book called " No more Christian nice guy" that may speak more directly to you culturally.
Interesting thread. I'll admit I had a lot of the nice guy tendencies. Interestingly enough, self-esteem improvement seemed to excise many of them. Remember, one of the talking points was all about allowing people to help you. Doing so allows them to feel close to you, and gives you and opportunity to validate. Positive all around.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Actually WE do not "basically" agree however that is not important because this is about understanding YOUR Point Of View and working with that POV. I was checking to make sure that you agreed with the flip side of your post on men's communication.
So what do you think about this statement? (I don't know if you notice how often you apply negative connotations to women and positive to men) Well, this means that the man must understand (and most don't) he must work hard at opening himself up, to share more, to verbally satisfy his wife. Men need to get their focus completely off physical communication and to focus almost exclusively on in-depth conversations and expressing feelings (her communication)
Also let me ask these questions: 1) Are BOTH men's and women's needs equally important in a relationship? 2) For a marriage to be on solid ground BOTH partners need to be getting their needs met and meeting the others needs? 3) Do you believe that these needs need to be completely and fully met for each other at ALL times? 4) Do you know what your wife's communication needs are? If so, how do you know her needs – did she tell you or have you assumed?
I will stop here and let you answer. Please answer these questions DIRECTLY - NO TANGENTS or else we will not be able to continue this line of thinking.
Oh and one extra question. Have you been told at work or at home that you do not listen well? I ask this because my previous post was fairly short and yet you completely missed the sentence below and thought that we agreed. It might be very frustrating for your wife if you do not HEAR what she has to say.
(To be clear I do not view men and women like this)
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
My wife has not made a physical move of ANY kind on me in more then 11 years. If I stop moving on her, she will be RELIEVED, not made uncomfortable. Not sure what this 180 would do.
From what I can tell from the quotes here, the stopping of sex or initiating sex for awhile is about YOU and has NOTHING to do with CAUSING your partner to do anything. THIS is not a move to get you more sex. It's a move to gain YOU power and control over yourself for awhile.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
No doubt some men here (and some spouses of women here) fit this description, but not all. I believe that there are genuinely decent men who get into relationships with selfish women, and they are unhappy because of the resulting imbalances that exist because of that selfishness
I agree with you, Stu. The book was written by a self-described Nice Guy. The emphasis wasn't to point blame or rip on decent men. The goal was to show Nice Guy's how they were contributing to that imbalance you reference above.
If you are contributing to situation, you can impact that situation.
In a relationship, *our* choices can contribute to an increase of selfishness and ongoing selfishness in our spouse. Do you think that's possible?
Nice Guys often keep "sacrificing" in a relationship because they think "it's the right thing to do". With the unspoken belief that doing so will facilitate their spouse choosing to "do the right thing".
The NG is operating under the premise that his spouse has the same rules of relationship. She may not. She may be in the camp of "If you really want something, you'll fight, cuss and scream to get it" rule of engagement. That's the rule she goes by. So that's the one she implements when she has wants something. NG bites his tongue, sacrifices or sublimates and thinks, "I'll go along with her on this and next time she'll see what a good guy I was and will _____ for me." But that's not going to even register on her radar. Meek requests, pouting, whining, sighing deeply from the other room - will probably just irritate her. It will certainly not produce a sudden desire in her to do what you want. She isn't operating from your standard of "the right thing to do".
You can see how this can go horribly wrong.
The author does address the negative side of Nice Guy behaviors. And there are negative aspects.
Originally Posted By: Corri Nice Guys, as described in that book, are the worst type of man... they are SO mentally and emotionally abusive, it just takes my breath.
Quote:
Cac, these behaviors are expressed on a continuum.
Take anger for instance. Among Nice Guys (and anyone else for that matter) anger may be expressed by:
depression whining/pouting withdrawal covert revenge a quick verbal lashout a slight strident elevation within regular conversation drinking staying out all night staying away from home the silent treatment heel dragging physical beating verbal abuse emotional abuse denigration in front of others infidelity
The "symptoms" may be the same, but the expression of those symptoms can vary wildly.
Mrs NOP Nice Guys often keep "sacrificing" in a relationship because they think "it's the right thing to do". With the unspoken belief that doing so will facilitate their spouse choosing to "do the right thing".
I can back that feeling/thought process up. Trouble is, what is right to one person, is a burden to some one else or foolish/childish/not the in thing to do to the OP.
Add in givers and takers. People that are willing to work for something VS people that want things the easy way.
