NikkiB #17

[S.T. _I Made It!]

OT....can you tell us how Nikki can "no longer accept it". Kicking him out of the bedroom? leaving? I wasn't really sure how she should do that. I guess I feel that if there are ultimatums, he's just gonna say fine, I'll see ya.

My H was also contacting OW after we reconciled. Not seeing her physically, because she lived 5 hours away, but still contacting. Now he never had a cocky attitude, but it was a secretive attitude. I knew that I had told him my perfect scenerio would be for him to never have contact with her and for us to be open about everything. I never "told" him to quit, or give him an ultimatum. I basically put faith in my God and knew that it would end if I continued to push forward and do what we have learned. then, about 5 months later, it stopped.


I really believe that they are meant to be together and things will work out, as long as Nikki stays strong and doesn't give up. The two of them have a great time together-something my H and I don't even have much of-and I believe they got together for a reason. I believe this OW is just a temptation that H cannot handle. As you mention about the MC, I really hope that H will have the desire to go.

Thanks OT!

oh, Nikki. I know this is hard, but I think having a calm attitude and being able to discuss the problem without emotion worked to my advantage. It does seem that H is just doing this partly to "get your goat". If he's truely acting cocky about it. It's like he's a teenager saying...ya, I know you told me not to, but I can do whatever the heck I want to.

Now what OT said, take a break, would be a really good idea. You really need to step back, and see, can I handle H doing this and wait it out?? or Do I need to make a consequence decision?

I believe that the 3 steps, GAL, stop chasing, Wait, can still apply. We already know that did work and he came back. and now, H had a setback. So why couldn't it work again?

[oldtimer]

Ultimatums and telling someone what to do are about contolling the other person.

Boundaries are about setting limits on how you allow people to treat you.

The only way to get the difference is to try to start practicing it, though some reading, like the book I mentioned to Nikki, can be helpful.

Nikki needs to set and enforce her own boundaries and own the consequences of doing so. Nikki is a big girl. Her H has repeatedly demonstrated that he will continue contact with PW right now. Nikki either needs to be OK with that or distance herself enough from him that she does not take it as a personal injury.

She is an adult, not a helpless victim.

Right now, she keeps throwing herself in front of H's car and crying when he runs over her. She asks him to be more careful, he keeps running over her. (Rinse and repeat.) Time to quit throwing herself in front of the car. She is an adult, she can figure out what to do instead.

[oldtimer]

Put it this way. Nikki can:

(1) Keep getting injured and keep trying to make H stop running her over.
(2) Get a titanium suit, keep getting run over and be OK.
(3) Quit throwing herself in front of the car.

(1) is about controlling H. (2) and (3) are about taking responsibility for herself and changing things so that they work better for her.

[oldtimer]

Ellie,

great post, great suggestions, and great question

[NikB]

Thanks all so much for your posts, suggestions, and support. It means so much to me. I need to check on all of you, too, and promise I will catch up soon!!

Ellie
Yeah that's the truth - sometimes that brain to mouth filter just fails! Not always a bad thing though I guess. I REALLY like the suggestion to put it into writing. I express myself better that way, and it helps take away the "forgetting" part of it. H uses "I forgot" a lot - I think he really DOES have memory problems but other times I think it's a convenient excuse. I do think it would be great for me to put it into writing and will post it here first for help/suggestions first.

As to your question... thanks for asking, it's an important question. I'd say it's because I really do love him very deeply, because of his other amazing good character traits and qualities, and because we are really good together most of the time ("when we're good we're great" kind of thing). The flaw that I'm seeing right now was not there for the prior 12 years (well, 11 or so, before this past year). I've thought hard about this and it's not that it was there but I ignored it - it truly wasn't there. I don't know if it's coming from an MLC, OW/PW, something else.. but it's "new." If it's a permanent change, no, I'm not willing to put up with it forever, but deep down I believe it's not permanent. I hope that makes some kind of sense.

Donna
I know - it does totally remind me of a kid testing boundaries. I hope he'll decide to go to MC with me. I'm scheduling a session either way, and will let him know when if he decides to go. Funny thing is I know she DID already talk to him about it being inappropriate back when we went last year - but for whatever reason he's forgotten, doesn't care, thinks something is different now, or something.

Thanks for your offer to help. Actually just reading your thread is helping me a ton. You are doing so well and so detached - you're where I almost got to earlier this year, before I let myself get sucked back in again. Reading your thread reminds me I do have that part of myself inside, just need to get back in touch with it again.

Kat
Thanks, appreciate it!

ST
I got some sleep - not enough, but more than the night before. Thanks. I know I can find the strength to handle this, just struggling some to find it right now I guess.

Thanks for your question to OT, I had the same one. I keep trying to step back and just handle it for now, but getting regularly slapped in the face with it isn't working for me at all (i.e. of Oldtimer's options - I'm not finding myself able to construct a titanium suit, so the question is how do I get out from in front of the car). I do think you're right that he's doing it partly to get a reaction. If I stop getting emotional about it that may help.

I hope he'll choose to go to MC with me. I am scheduling it today. I tried last week but she was out of the office. Before that... well, basically I realized I was procrastinating because I keep feeling like that's where the next bomb will drop. But I'm finally realizing if it does, it does. Nothing I can do about it.

Julie
Thanks - you're right, I'll be fine. Doesn't always feel like it, but I know it deep down. Thanks for the reminder.

Yeah I thought that about the bedroom too - I'd really prefer to stay there after I fixed it all up. It's not the most important thing, but I did set it up as "my" space when H left before and I still really like it.

C_K
Yuck... sorry you had one of those conversations too. It is really disrespectful, that's for sure.

Care
Thanks for your insights. I have a feeling it's pride more than anything, especially with the "teenager" tone. I think that's a good idea about asking him why - particularly after I put it in writing so "I forgot" doesn't work anymore. You're right it's hard with the good times, makes it more bittersweet or something. I don't want to stop having good times together but I let myself get sucked in and hurt (or as OT says, run over) over and over again.

Oldtimer
Thanks - it does make me feel better that this is "normal" in some way. You did recommend a book on boundaries but didn't mention the author - that should be easier to find now. Thank you!! Maybe I'll read it at the library and use that to get out of the house some. I also got that "critical inner voice" one and plan to start reading that one this week.

I like your analogies - thanks for those. I also appreciate your faith in me figuring out what to do. I know I NEED to figure out what to do, but actually figuring it out is proving a lot more difficult. I can't get away this weekend because of too many other commitments (happily none of which are H related though - he's invited but they are "my" events with family and friends). I think I'll find more things to do in the evenings just for me, though.

-----------------
Thanks again everyone.

For now my plan is:
- Schedule the MC
- Schedule an IC (another thing I keep procrastinating on - I keep getting this independent "I can figure this out on my own" streak and need to cut that out)
- Work on some boundaries in writing and get feedback here, then give to H
- If/when boundaries are broken again - ask Care's question about why, but not ask for an answer
- Take more time for myself
- Do NOT do anything rash right now in terms of ultimatems, buying furniture, signing leases somewhere, any of that.

So much more I need to do, but I think this is a reasonable start.

[oldtimer]

Sounds like a plan.

Just for emphasis...

You do not give H boundaries. You don't even have to tell him your boundaries. They are YOUR boundaries.

Moreover, it doesn't matter WHY they are broken. You don't keep throwing yourself in front of the car if your H explains, "Gee honey, sorry, I keep confusing the gas for the brake." You stay away from the car until he can demonstrate that he has fixed that problem.

[NikB]

Thanks OT. I understand what you mean. I do think it's important for me to tell him what they are, primarily because one major problem I think we both had was not communicating our needs our boundaries effectively (or for that matter not even really defining them, but especially communicating them). I can't fix that in H, but I can fix it in myself. I feel like writing them down and communicating them to H are both big steps in the right direction to fixing that about me. Hope that makes sense.

And I completely get what you're saying about why. I like Care's idea of asking him (only once and only after I've clearly expressed everything in writing) to think about that question for himself. But I don't need to know the answer - it doesn't really matter that much.

[NikB]

Morning everyone - thanks again for your support, I can really feel the support from all of you pulling for me and it means so much.

I imagine this thread's getting close to locking and I'll have a lot to mull over soon, so wanted to do that in a new thread:
NikkiB #18 (new thread)