CVA - Thread 2, Hold mode

[Not Much Left]

Hey everyone, finally decided to put something over here.

Here is a summary of my sitch.

Me: 44
W: 37
4 Kids: D11, S9, S7, S5
Sep 3.2.07 (3 times before as well)
Living in an apartment (nights mostly)
M: 13 yrs
Together: 17 yrs

WAW Background
- has initiated all 4 times, typical pattern. We are on a 2-3 yr cycle. My issues, Type A, anger - no name calling or physical, just very loud oputbursts based on my selfishness. W passive aggressive behavior but mostly passive, very silent most of our marriage and really, and I mean really only initiated "things" when she asked me out 17 yrs ago and these separations. Wife has told best friend, "dont know if he can make changes that last, I have seen this before"

- grew up w/ Alcoholic father and mother who felt / feels trapped. Dad recovering alcoholic now (right before we got together 17 yrs ago). I am being painted with his abusive tendencies and at the same time almost told outright that I was not as good a dad as he was in terms of discipline.

- MLC? Thinks she has sacrificed for me and the kids (dealing with my neediness) and raising our 4 kids to now and now it is "her time" - her words in a notebook I found.

Issues w/ CVA
- controlling (friends / family)
- anger outburst as it relates to kids
- no life other than family / work

Early & Current Events
- Early on, not so much begging, just tried to have R talks which went no where. ILY every day to now very rare. W seems to have let go a lot of initial anger toward me and "watching every move".
- CVA 180, really a "how I react thing" for me. Not so much anything physical, just emotions under control all the time.
- Recently after trip with best friend, more inclined to have me at the house daily with evening spent with her watching TV after putting kids to bed.

Other notable items;
- Kids know daddy is not home at night and "working on things". Acting as a family all but me sleeping w/ my wife at our house.
- W and I in IC as well as kids.
- D11 will not participate in C.
- Kids C sees some issues but for the most part says our kids are very happy!

Goals/objectives:
- read everything I can (DR, DB, Mort Fertel, this site, 5LL, other)
- fully recover from neck fusion surgery - check!
- GALing - happening
- make changes long -term through accountability to others (working on)
- PMA / avoid dwelling on negative thoughts - OK?.
- See a sign from W - touch, "willing to work on this"?? August?
- Avoid R talks - doing pretty well
- Keep R w/ Children strong - check

Old Thread

[Gone Dancin']

Nice to get a more full picture of your sitch -- didn't know much at all before!

Sounds like things have been getting better, no? I had anger issues too, and mine were very aggressive in that I would hit things like the wall, bed, etc, and also get verbally abusive and throw out major guilt trips. Now that I look back on it, man was I an immature baby! I finally learned to deal with my anger after 3 months of counseling and discovering DBing. I'm so glad that I'm healthy now in terms of this anger problem, and know that I can deal with it in a healthy way. Anger is okay to have, it is just how we deal with it that makes the difference as to whether it's healthy or unhealthy.

Glad you're keeping your emotions in check now too. It seems to be bringing the W around to the possibility that you CAN change...

Is August your goal, or something metioned between you and W?

GD

[Not Much Left]

Thanks GD for the thoughts.
SOrry, August was my hope to get an unsoliced touch or comment from W that we are going to try and work this out. Obviously I would like to so the Us is really her. I cannot control either of these so just a hope.

CVA

[Not Much Left]

5 pm update!
Talked to W about coming by the house tonight for our usual evening. "fine" in an upbeat manner. Here's the kicker, I knew she might be going to see MY counselor as I had asked her if she would consider that to help ME out.

I said, what did you guys do today, oh not much, just messed around at home and went and saw CVA's C! Oh really I said, wow, any insights? Yeah, it was good she says.

My goal on this was to see if she would talk to my counselor about me (he only has my side of the story so) to help me understand what she might be thinking about me and ultimately to help me help myself. Of course, not kidding myself when I say I was hoping she might just open up to someone that could give me feedback. Sort of quasi MC I guess.

We shall see, I have an appt tomorrow at 10am
Wish me luck!
CVA Out.

[Nomopo]

Thanks for the sitch details. And good luck at the session tomorrow. Hope it goes well!

[Not Much Left]

Hey Nomo & Others
Just came back from C. Very weird, trying to take it in.

W saw him yesterday. She would share nothing last night w/ me about what was said.

I walk in and he is pretty sullen about the outcome. When I pressed him to tell me what she actually said to come to a conclusion that my W is just "along for the ride, comfortable where she is with the living arrangement, it is being financed..." his words, he said he was sort of going off what I had said about that and her lack of committment one way or another to all questions regarding our R and where it was headed.

So, as my heart sank a bit, I tried to keep calm and ask if there was anything specific she said that would tell him it was over. No, he said.

I told him I though she was in hold mode and still watching my every move. He tentatively agreed based on the fact that she said "during our past separations, he has been nice before but went back to the old cliff so I dont know (guessing here) if it will last".

Question for the group.
If she was done, wouldnt she have just said, "I dont care if he changes or not, I am not going on with this" or something to that effect? I went through the last 2 weeks with him, (i) there every night, no resistance, back rubs and no significant issues and he says, "yes she is definitely letting you get close" but I sensed some hesitation on his part.

Why would she let me get closer, to make pulling the rip cord more comfortable? That one is definitely hard for me to understand if that happens.

Need some advice. I called her to ask if she was going out w/ her group tonight to celebrate her Bday (they all do this) as she said late last night that it might happen tonight. I told here I needed to make plans one way or another. She said no, probably not, I asked if it was "ok" to come over and she says yes, so...

????? would appreciate any advice here ladies and gents!

[Nomopo]

Hey CVA. Just sitting down to a sushi lunch at my desk after yoga. Reading your post now.

[Ruikee]

CVA, These WAS are so hard to decipher. maybe something was said at the C to let her open a door to you. Remember to stay strong and keep your cool.....

[Nomopo]

Ok. It wasn't as bad as you probably feel. I think you need to ask yourself now, if you didn't before, what were reasonable expectations about the outcome. Having been through this exact sort of episode a few times (it still is tough to deal with even today), I have learned to prepare myself (and others, when appropriate) for what is likely to happen. When W went to see our current C, she painted the worst possible picture. She wanted to make sure C knew how bad things were, how bad I was and how far gone she was. Not that your W painted the worst possible picture - far from it, in fact. But I think it is easy to get a false sense of hope about what might happen at these sessions and then to be let down when it wasn't really realistic and we just set ourselves up for disappointment.

For example, when I spoke to cuz-in-law yesterday (still need to report on that), I tempered my expectations so that all I was really looking for was whether W said (or cuz got any indication) that it was definitely over. I knew W would bash me (or at least the past me), and talk about how she didn't love me, had no feelings for me, how she couldn't see things changing or me changing, maybe how she had no hope, etc., etc., etc.

Anyway, on to a few specific comments:

I walk in and he is pretty sullen about the outcome.

A couple of things. First, he could be trying to manage your expectations. I think you and I both know that we face serious uphill battles in our Ms. In fact, the odss are probably against us. So he may acting extremely cautiously not to give you false hope.

Second, he's just human. I found that both our Cs became attached to us and our situation, and wanted to see us successfully save our M. When W gave them some of the WAS lines, I think they both genuinely were bummed out. That's ok, but it is hard on us. Keep it in perspective. (I remember how upset our original C was when he learned of W's EA. I'd say he was crushed too.)

Third, because they're human. They can be wrong. And the really important thing is, your W is where she is today, but things can change. It's not like any of our WAS aren't really where they say they are (and they are just waiting for the right moment to say "hey, I wasn't really feeling that way, I loved you all the time and things were great, and I was ready to work on our M, but just didn't want to tell you yet because you hadn't fully understood everything"). No, they do feel the way they say they feel and they are working through things. And whether or not they do change, they definitely can change.

When I pressed him to tell me what she actually said to come to a conclusion that my W is just "along for the ride, comfortable where she is with the living arrangement, it is being financed..." his words, he said he was sort of going off what I had said about that and her lack of committment one way or another to all questions regarding our R and where it was headed.

So that's not so bad at all, and more importantly it's nothing new. You knew (right?) that she is "deciding" whether or not to walk away. You're in a holding pattern, just like me.

So, as my heart sank a bit

Totally understand. It's normal, but it's not rational. What single thing did you learn this morning that you didn't know? Nothing. And in fact you maybe got a positive (coming next).

, I tried to keep calm and ask if there was anything specific she said that would tell him it was over. No, he said.

Well, maybe you new this but for me this is a positive. She hasn't 100% made up her mind.

I told him I though she was in hold mode and still watching my every move. He tentatively agreed based on the fact that she said "during our past separations, he has been nice before but went back to the old cliff so I dont know (guessing here) if it will last".

I agree with your analysis, and glad you could help C get to that point. Is he pro-M, solutions-based, goal-oriented? Is he familiar with DR? Is he in Bellaire, by chance?

Also, what part were you guessing at? Is it the part where she said "I don't know if it will last?" Because that is a good part, given it didn't last the first three times. The fact she is at all open to seeing if it will last is big, IMO.

If she was done, wouldnt she have just said, "I dont care if he changes or not, I am not going on with this" or something to that effect?

I think so. And at a minimum that seems like th emost likely answer. What would she gain by not coming out and saying it? More of a free ride? Does she plan to live like that forever?

he says, "yes she is definitely letting you get close" but I sensed some hesitation on his part.

Did you ask him about this? Did he say if that was good or bad? Seems good to me.

Why would she let me get closer, to make pulling the rip cord more comfortable? That one is definitely hard for me to understand if that happens.

I just don't see it that way at all. But who knows? Not me. But you can't worry about it. You need to go forward with what you want to do, regardless of what is going through her head.

Need some advice.[. . .] I asked if it was "ok" to come over and she says yes, so...[. . .]????? would appreciate any advice here ladies and gents!

On what? Whether to go over? Yes, if you want to for you. On what to do/say or how to handle it? I'd just get right back into DB mode and your strategies.

I really don't see any valid reason for you to be down. Battle those emotions.

Hope it helps,
Nomopo

[waw1978]

Great new and improved post CVA!

I would try not to wonder too much about what might have been said to the C. You will just drive yourself crazy. You have an invite over (again) tonight and it sounds like you have been spending a lot of time there. Try not to set your expectations too high though. Sounds like you are making progress so try to keep on keeping on with what you have been doing.

From the sounds of it, your W hasn't thrown in the towel but is cautiously waiting to see if the new improved CVA is here to stay. Like you said you have been through this 3 other times. I can understand if you W isn't sure about jumping back into the M head first. She has been down this path a couple times and keeps landing back where she started. Keep showing her this is new path that ends up somewhere she will want to stay.