Do I buy a house? What about sex?

[mkultra]

Hmm, sorry if I am bad with the math but did y'all have kids early? Is he trying to get back to his youth? Now, he wants to get his music career going after the kids are gone? I have worked and dated with a lot of musicians. It is such a tough sitch since you are actually made to feel like the OW and the band comes first. It is a difficult sitch since the biz is pretty brutal and youth oriented. I tried to be supportive and sexy but it gets shallow and the intimacy becomes solely based on sexual intimacy. Plus, men in bands, this is a gross generalization, expect their egos to be stroked constantly. I am sure this is true of many people in MLC mode but people on stage get high from it and then they yearn for it. My H also works in promoting music and we used to tease the way the kids wore their hair and clothes, etc. Now he is so engrossed in the biz he looks like the very people he mocked. Classic MLC.

[mkultra]

Regarding sex, I would continue enjoying sex with love until you are given a reason to stop. I kind of wish I could have sex with my H without all the drama. I would not share him and the thought of sleeping with a cheater is too repulsive but I would not be against having sex with my H even though he is not sleeping in my house. Our therapist advised against it but what is the alternative, really? I have no proof that he has been unfaithful but I may never know.

[Trixi]

We were single parents when we met and yes, we were pretty young parents.

I think he is trying to recapture some of his youth. He is VERY attractive and probably doesn't want to 'miss out' on any opportunities. I am cute and we make a very cute couple (as many many people have told us), but I am not drop dead gorgeous.

One thing that is so baffling about he and I, is that when we are at a karaoke bar we quasi-frequent, people have said that they are jealous of us. And my husband says to me "Of course, they're jealous; they can tell how much we geniunely like and love and respect each other." Plus, we're fairly affectionate when we are out. He always holds my hand, gives me kisses, etc. Well, I should say he did those things up until 4 days ago.

I don't know if he'll actually end up being in a band or not. Based on his comment from January (re:cheating), it was really hard for me to get excited when he recently announced how he really thought he should "pursue" his music. But I didn't stop him. I offer critques when he sings (if he asks) I compliment the new songs he is writing.... who knows. I have to admit that I was concerned about him getting into the music business for the very reasons that you wrote. I had hoped I was being stereotypical in my thoughts. Guess not.

Before I head up to bed--
his pillows are still in the bedroom; I never mentioned the guest bedroom being ready(door is closed); I am getting tired. Do I go and tell him about his choice? Just leave it be and if he comes to bed to remove the pillows let him know that he doesn't have to use the couch?

[MaxP]

He cannot articulate to me, what exactly is missing for him, but he just doesn't feel strongly enough. He loves me deeply and I am his best friend..BUT he thinks there might be someone better out there for him. And maybe he doesn't even want a relationship. Bottom line to him(3 days ago) we absolutely must live separately for him to figure out what he wants.

You could have taken these words straight from my wife.

[mkultra]

I do not know what is best in that sitch but I remember reading that the road to physical separation needs to be avoided, of course unless there is abuse. Try to keep him close without pressure. I do not know what you should do if he acts like a jerk. Remember, that a gorgeous girl catches his eye, a witty girl keeps his attention, but a sympathetic girl keeps him for life. That is a quote from another marriage book, not DB.

[MaxP]

I wonder what the equivalent analogy is for a woman?

I can't avoid physical separation in my sitch as my W becomes a WAW on Friday. My hands are tied.

Back on track I would agree with the others, it sounds like your H is having a bit of a MLC.

Max

[Trixi]

If it is an MLC, it's been going on for several years already. shouldn't it be done by now? :p

Since he feels "drawn" and "compelled" to see what it would be like to be free, now that he is "more mature, wiser, has more self-confidence, is better off financially", I feel as if I am fighting a fantasy that can't be beat. Even if I was all things to him, I am not perfect and I am sure the fantasy would fill whatever void I could not.

Journaling
I never mentioned having the extra room being set up with a bed. We fell into some familar habits. He came home for dinner the usual time. He wasn't loving like before, but polite. I tried to keep things light and friendly. We ate dinner and he expressed how tired he was. (Made me feel bad since he had slept in our bed and not the couch--and I don't think he complained of being tired sleeping on the couch. But I digress.) He sat down on the couch and turned on the tv. I did some stuff on the laptop. Sat nearish him on the couch, but we did not snuggle as we usually do. We actually ended up watching 1.5 hours completely together, then he moved to the floor to play his guitar for another hour (while we watched another show) and after that he went upstairs to his computer. An hour and half after that, I came to him and reminded him that headlines was going to be on Leno (monday night ritual for us to watch in bed) and asked if he wanted me to pause it. He said sure.

He came to bed, laid on top of the covers dressed watching the segment. Went to have a smoke. Came back and got undressed and into bed. Little awkward because normally we snuggle and hold hands while watching tv and last night we didn't. Watch some of Conan. He turned his back to me and was trying to reach an itch. I scratched his back some. ....Suffice it to say we had REALLY good sex and went to sleep.

I am supposed to see a counselor tomorrow who knows both of us. She was going talk to me about helping me/us get through this transition. Honestly, I am sort of ambivalent about her goal in that arena. I kinda feel like she was pushing him to make a decision that would "make him happy". I don't think that was the right tact- but no one put a gun to his head.

I am torn about GAL. Right now, he is still coming home for dinner, etc. If I all of a sudden start not being around, he will start creating a life that doesn't include me. (feel free to break out the 2x4s).

One thing I don't want is for him to be "free" to call all the shots, come and go as he pleases, not wear his wedding ring, be stingy with affection and then still get great sex. On the one hand I know it keeps us connected, but on the other, that's a great life for him, not so great for me.

One other thing, when we *were* talking about separation, he didn't want any restrictions placed on him regarding dating or sex. He was willing to call us "separated" (so I can continue on his insurance) until the end of the year, at which point we would "re-evaluate" the sitch and if things weren't better we would file at the beginning of next year. Doesn't that sully the sanctity of marriage?

[MaxP]

If it is an MLC, it's been going on for several years already. shouldn't it be done by now?

Some people say they can last for several years, but it has been a long time from what you say. If you ask me he just sounds really selfish. The music thing sounds very MLCish though.

One thing I don't want is for him to be "free" to call all the shots, come and go as he pleases, not wear his wedding ring, be stingy with affection and then still get great sex. On the one hand I know it keeps us connected, but on the other, that's a great life for him, not so great for me.

Exactly, this is really selfish behaviour and perhaps some boundaries are required, if nothing else for your sanity.

One other thing, when we *were* talking about separation, he didn't want any restrictions placed on him regarding dating or sex. He was willing to call us "separated" (so I can continue on his insurance) until the end of the year, at which point we would "re-evaluate" the sitch and if things weren't better we would file at the beginning of next year. Doesn't that sully the sanctity of marriage?

I guess you are like me here, being separated is so weird that you cannot know what territory you have moved into. What does it actually mean to him and you? It is worth discussing this before you separate.

Given that you will know far less about what he is up to and you can't control anyone anyway there is a hightened risk that something could happen. In my case we discussed this situation briefly and I stated that while I cannot prevent what my wife does, I do not want us to see / sleep with other people while separated as this will make it way harder to reconcile. That's all you can do. Obviously we are still married, but WASs may view that as a technicality and the danger is that they feel they are free to 'explore their feelings'. Clearly your H would prefer your blessing here but I can completely understand that you don't want to give him that (and you don't have to either).

The other issue is one of health, particularly if you are still likely to be having sex with him.

Max

[Dom R]

If it is an MLC, it's been going on for several years already. shouldn't it be done by now? :p

Unfortunately... no

sounds like you should read the MLC resources around here. there's a pinned post on resources, in the MLC forum.

To shortcut a bit on that specific question, I think that michelle writes in her "divorce remedy" book, that an MLC can take on average, 3-7 years :-( :-( :-(

btw: MLCs are only mentioned in "divorce remedy", not "divorce busting", i think.

Some thoughts on your journal post:

I'm glad you didnt kick him out. I'm sorry you two are no longer as cozy as you were last week. i hope it slowly comes back to you.

I think your counsellor is going to push him to separate.
Any marriage counsellor that is focused primarily on "what makes you happy?" is going to destroy your marriage. I'd say cancel the appointment and never see her again.
"help you through this transition"?? I think she's going to "help" you "transition" to being divorced.

One other thing, when we *were* talking about separation, he didn't want any restrictions placed on him regarding dating or sex. He was willing to call us "separated" (so I can continue on his insurance) until the end of the year, at which point we would "re-evaluate" the sitch and if things weren't better we would file at the beginning of next year. Doesn't that sully the sanctity of marriage?

Absolutely, it sullies your marriage.
I would never give your approval to him, for him to have sex.

On the one hand, you dont have the ability, really, to "put restrictions" on him. you could own up to him that "you dont and cant control him".

On the flip side... when and if that topic comes up again: point out that "separated" means "living separately, but still married", and married people shouldnt be having sex with other people. if he wants to have sex with someone else, then ('in your opinion') he should get a divorce first. You view sex while married, as cheating.
"I cant control you. I'm just letting you know how I feel".

side comment: he has to "try out" having sex with other people? What, so if the sex is better with someone else, he's going to leave, based on who f***s him better? You might point out the oddity of this viewpoint.

PS: on the GAL thing... I seem to recall in your kind of situation, it is recommended to look for things that you COULD do together. (and that he might like, even)

First find out if he has plans for a day. If he doesnt... say you are looking to have some fun doing ..... and he is invited to come. Then.. you look attractive, and fun-loving, while at the same time not shutting him out.
In my opinion, I think it's really important to not shut him out right now.


PPS: dont put yourself down on competing with a fantasy. You do what you can do. If you're doing everything that you can to be a good wife for him, and he still chooses to go off pursuing some silly fantasy for a while... you did everything you could, and you can be proud of yourself. he's the one who failed, at that point.
hang in there.

[Trixi]

I guess you are like me here, being separated is so weird that you cannot know what territory you have moved into. What does it actually mean to him and you? It is worth discussing this before you separate.

heh-when I tried to talk about it, get some ground rules established, suggested reading the book about a "controlled separation", he didn't want to do it. He reiterated that he wanted to know what it felt like to be free and having "rules" would hinder that feeling and he wouldn't agree to it.

Playing devil's advocate (probably somewhat literally), I can see where in his mind he needs to be sure that either way, he is making the right decision. And if he never gets to experience "the other side", won't it always be a draw to him? Additionally, I really do not want to "force" him to divorce me. (WTF is wrong with me? I need some serious coaching.)

I think your counsellor is going to push him to separate.
Any marriage counsellor that is focused primarily on "what makes you happy?" is going to destroy your marriage. I'd say cancel the appointment and never see her again.
"help you through this transition"?? I think she's going to "help" you "transition" to being divorced.

I totally agree.

I am dragging my feet right now. I need (regardless of staying or going) to get rid of a bunch of sh*t that has been cluttering things up. But when I start to sort thru the stuff I am so overwhelmed with the prospect of dealing with everything, I just can't do it. (It's far easier to hang out on these boards. )


Alright, I just made an appt to speak with Chuck a DB coach. Wish me loads of luck!!

Edited to add: I don't think my H is sure of his decision if he is sleeping in my bed and having sex with me. Agree?