Getting started

[Gone Dancin']

Actually, Nomo is the one who says this, but I stole it from a movie. Any guesses?

LOL! Guess you're such a guru Nomo that I confuse you with Michele! No guess on the movie, but I swear I read/saw it somewhere else...give me a hint.

I also hear you on all of the responsibility pressures, Nomo. All of my family died by the time I was 26, so I've acquired a lot of responsibility from that. Combine that with having kids and a career in teaching English and I was all work and mostly no play -- and like you, the "play" times and events were all dictated by your's truly. Arrgghh! I'm getting tired of seeing the Hindsight Monster continually rearing its ugly head. Why can't we have more encounters with the Foresight Fairy instead?

[Nomopo]

Nope. Its a Nomo original. I've said it 15 times or so on these boards, and heard a few others using it. But I actually stole it from The Last Kiss. Its when the dad (a therapist) tells his daughter's bf (and they're expecting a child), after he had a one-stand and is trying to get daughter to give him a second chance, that its simple: "do whatever it takes." The bf asks, "its that simple, huh?". The dad says, "yes. You can't fail if you don't give up.". Powerful moment. Good film, but a little close to him for all of us.

[waw1978]

Waw, when you left, did you really care about what was going to happen? What I mean is, my W told her forend that she felt she wanted to leave, but she was scared to, she hasn't contacted a lawyer because she chickensh*t (her words), if you relly wanted out, would you care about that stuff?

Of course I really cared what was going to happen. I think most WAW do care and the #1 reason we got in this mess was probably caring too much about what was going to happen than caring about how we felt to begin with. I was scared to death to make the move to finally lay it all on the line and say I was leaving. Yes, Chickens**t is exactly what many of us are or else we would have taken action long before the only option left was to leave.

As far as contacting a lawyer, that sounds like the final nail in the coffin. I think many WAW need time and space and if there is no "OM" in the picture really would like to try and work things out if its possible rather than just go for the D. I wouldn't expect a truly confused WAW to run out and contact an atty. If she did that, then her mind is probably made up for the most part. Just makes the LBS have to work extra hard to change thier WAS mind. Her not doing that shows she is still open to other possibilities. Chickens**t works in your favor...gives you time to enact some of the strategies and change her mind before she goes to the atty.

[waw1978]

Nomo

Thanks for the explanation about the "change". Many parralels to my H. Does give me some insight. Except instead of highly motivated "pusher" he became my jailer. I often referred to him as the warden because of the way he needed to control and dominate my life.

Funny thing is we have sort of reverse roles. I am more the "husband" and he is more of the "wife" ie...he does lots of nagging, wining, and complaining about my activities. Similar to how some wives act towards their husband. I listen to the gents at work with how their wives tend to act similar to my husband and it became very clear, that I have a "wife" not a husband. Its become the office joke, that I couldn't go out for a beer after work because the "wife" would be mad if I got home later than usual etc etc. Asking "permission" to do everything is a terrible way to live!

PS: Its not really funny, its very sad because this is one fo the behaviors that drove me away.

[waw1978]

Journaling:

Weekend went well for the most part. Friday night took D4 to a local feast (carnival) and we had a great time riding the rides and playing games. D4 won several small stuffed animals and was thrilled. My Dad and S-Mom met us there and D4 was in heaven. She thinks Grampa hung the moon. We stayed out till almost midnight. My H would not have approved but I am not living my life under his rule anymore. H was gracious enough to spend the night at his sisters so D4 could sleep in her own bed and not at my Mom’s with me. I still haven’t moved to the new place so I don’t really have a place for her yet and don’t want to confuse her anymore than necessary. Trying to keep her in the same routine until I get settled and have a bed and room for her. I really appreciated that he was mature enough to do this. He has been rather spiteful and not wanting me to sleep at the house. Part of the all or nothing routine he has been playing. I think he might be realizing this isn’t getting him anywhere. I can’t know what is going through his head but at least this seems to be less of an issue.

Saturday was his day with D4 so they took off and went to his parents pool for the day and to a friends house for BBQ that night. I ended up beaching it with my best girl friend and then I went to celebrate a cousin’s birthday that night. Since I haven’t been feeling up to celebrating it was a welcomed change. We hit a few bars & a nightclub to dance and then early AM breakfast to round out the night. I didn’t get in till 4:30 but had to pick up D4 from H at 8 the next AM. He asked me to bring D4 to his bike rally that afternoon. I was reluctant since it was “my day” with her but I did anyway since it seemed to mean a lot too him. It ended up being a zillion degrees so we didn’t stay long. Due to the heat he invited me & D4 to meet back at his parents to cool off in the pool. I should have said no but D4 loves the pool and thought this would be okay. I should have went with the gut and just taken her to the beach instead. After a pleasant unpressured day at the pool H actually comes right out and asks if we can be intimate when we got home. I refrained from saying what I really wanted to say and just said no, I am not interested. I do not feel that way about him right now. He walked away looking sad and I did feel bad as I did not intentionally want to hurt his feelings. When we got home I told him I didn’t say that to hurt him but I just didn’t feel that way about him just yet. I mean we are not even holding hands or kissing or touching…Why would I want to jump in the sack? I continue to wonder if he is an idiot.

Two steps forward with the pleasant activities on Sunday & letting me & D4 sleep at the house…then the big backslide with yet another comment about the intimacy thing. Shed some light on this for me gents…WTH is he thinking? Why would he think that even asking me, again, would be a good idea? Any good will I had was totally gone after that. Back to square 1.

Now we are supposed to go to two concerts together this week. I was a little annoyed that he is going to see the show two nights in a row and never offered to let me have one night and he could have the other. My only option is to go with him if I want to go. So I agreed to this, but now I am thinking it was a mistake. We also have tickets to a second show later in the week that I still want to go to, so I agreed to that as well. I am really thinking this will give him the wrong idea since he seems to missing the point completely still.

[Not Much Left]

OK WAW
Here is the deal from my POV. Your H wants sex, what man doesnt? In his mind, it has nothing to do with how your sitch is going, it rarely does. It connects us, no question, but maybe right now he just wants that physical release (sorry to be blunt here, not trying to pry). Yes we are idiots when it come to this. Dont shut him off becuase of this, chalk it up to being a male barely one step above a gorilla.

I go back to my list for him..."here is the deal pal, here is what you need to do..."

BTW, I am the wife in my sitch too. Nagging, etc. Thanks, I am trying to change that.

CVA

[Iamworththetime]

H actually comes right out and asks if we can be intimate when we got home. I refrained from saying what I really wanted to say and just said no, I am not interested. I do not feel that way about him right now. He walked away looking sad and I did feel bad as I did not intentionally want to hurt his feelings.

This might have been his way of trying to see where you two stood with each other, you being at his parents house, bringing your daughter to his bike rally on your weekend, going to the theater etc...he might have been thinking that you were slowly coming back to him and so he decided to see if that was the case. Not the best way to do that, not something I would do, but he doesn't have the execellent advice from this messege board and DR like we do. Hell, my W still walks around naked in front of me and it drives me crazy, I want her in a bad way, but I'm not going to come out and ask for it because I don;t want to drive her away.

[Gone Dancin']

waw,

H is looking for quick fixes, that's why he attempted to initiate the intimacy (though in the form of a question). He saw some forward progress (albeit small), and tried to take the bull by the horns. Being that you haven't been intimate very much at all in quite some time, he's also likely thinking that this is something YOU need too, and that if he can just get you there that things might begin turning around altogether. Like you, I can't read his mind, but this is how I perceive things.

When we got home I told him I didn’t say that to hurt him but I just didn’t feel that way about him just yet. I mean we are not even holding hands or kissing or touching…Why would I want to jump in the sack? I continue to wonder if he is an idiot.

Just wanted to say that you have a good sense of humor, and even though I feel for your H and his ignorance as to the best way to work things out with you, I must say I found this a little funny! And many of us men are, in fact, idiots. So your H has a lot of company!

It's too bad that H hasn't figured out what your needs are right now, but he's trying. It was nice that he stayed at sis' house for you and D4 the other night, and that he has kept some distance and isn't begging, crying, etc. Try to remember the skills that he DOESN'T HAVE right now to save this M, and try to see that he is trying. Give him time and he might just come around. Remember Nomo -- took him 15 months to figure it out, and now look where he is? He is a DBing king -- your H could get there eventually too.

Also, what is more important to you -- the concerts or drawing a boundary with H? Have you really lined out what your needs are right now and what you need from him if there is any chance to save this M? Tell him that you'd like to do the separate day thing with the first concert, and that you're willing to go with him to the second one. If you truly need space, you're going to have to give it to yourself as much as H needs to give it to you. Politely and respectfully decline invitations to be at the same place together, and if he acts sad or wants to know why, just remind him that it is counterproductive to saving the M to be around him more than absolutely necessary right now.

I am really thinking this will give him the wrong idea since he seems to missing the point completely still.

You're most likely right. I mean, look at all of us LBSs -- we look at ANYTHING that isn't negative as a positive sign. If my W was willing to go to a concert with me I'd probably wet myself with anticipation!

GD

[waw1978]

Thank you gents for the feedback.

CVA my H never wants sex, ever. My gal pals think he might be gay its so bad. This is totally out of character for him and skeeves me out since I can barely stand the man right now.

I guess I find it more insulting than most women because we have not had a physical relationship in the past year and his timing to decide he finds me attractive again seems to be reactionary to my leaving. If we had a physical relationship prior the "bomb" then I could understand continuing it. But since he made it clear for so long that I just don't do it for him, I am not eager to resume a physical relationship either. This is why I think he acting like a dope.

H refuses to actually read DR but I am just going to leave it on the night stand and maybe he will pick it up while I am staying at my Mom's. We did not have MC this week but we have an appt Sat AM so I am going to bring up DR and see if the MC can get him to read it. I am also going to bring up this renewed interest in a physical relationship. It just doesn't seem right and I am in no way interested in that right now. Its been 8 months and before that is was a handful of times over several years. I find it creepy that all of sudden he has this interest. Esp with the heaps of insults I have endured in the meantime abt why he didn't want to be intimate ie...I was fat & unattractive.

Yes, I realize now that I NEVER should have brought my daughter to his parents or the bike rally. HUGE HUGE mistake. Again, I did it for her, and he thinks/acts like its progress. Now I am worried that these two concerts we are going to together will totally give him the wrong impression. But its my favorite band so I am really want to go. Wish he would give me the tickets to bring a friend since he is already going one night with a friend. The second show my uncle and my father going to with us so even if I decide not to go with H, I am still going.

[Gone Dancin']

Wish he would give me the tickets to bring a friend since he is already going one night with a friend

Ask him and explain why -- that would be my suggestion. Just do so in a friendly and compassionate manner (he is a delicate flower right now! ). Hopefully he can respect this decision. I understand though that this might cause you to not go to the concert, or go with H and have it be uncomfortable and awkward. It's obviously your call, but do look at all of the options.

Hey, question for you (hijacking thread for a minute). My W has been sick for 3 weeks or so and has mentioned this to me a few times over the last week. So yesterday she picked up the kids for her days, and I had the kids give her a pink carnation and a card (she didn't read it at the house though) and tell her "Sorry you've been sick Mommy. Hope you're feeling better" (they're 5 and 3). The card is a Get Well/Sympathy card and I helped the kids write in "Love S5" and "Love D3". My D also drew a heart (with my help -- her idea though to draw it) and colored a bunch in it. When they gave it to her she gave them hugs and told them thank you, and that they would put it in water when they get home.

From a WAW's point of view, was this a bad idea? I haven't given her anything at all since Mother's Day, and have given her a ton of space since then too. I just wanted her to know that I was concerned about her, and that I was teaching the kids to be concerned about their mom. I didn't say anything about it or expect anything in return, and plan on backing off immediately again for a while. I just felt like it was a nice thing to do to show her I still cared about her well being, together or not. Bad idea?

Thanks waw -- us LBS's are so inquisitive and lost, aren't we?

GD