...If someone's having trouble with it, a doctor, psychiatrist, or counselor can help. Seriously.
more "storybook". there are things that these people can't cure. In fact, some of their prescribed methods, while they may extend lives, actually exacerbate the unattractive effects of the underlying conditions. you know--for these theoretical individuals.
Hmmm... haven't seen that much. A change that extends one's life generally also improves one's looks, and some such changes even improve one's smell. Making the change might produce crankiness for a while, but that doesn't last forever and there are things that can be prescribed to mitigate it.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
yeah...I wasnt' talking about that unattractiveness; I was talking about something completely different. (there are just so many!). But now that you mention it, I did try that prescription, and it made things worse. didn't react well to it at all.
yeah...I wasnt' talking about that unattractiveness; I was talking about something completely different. (there are just so many!).
Well, you know how to eat an elephant, right? One bite at a time.
Also, just for the record, stubborn, relentless pessimism is unattractive. I even annoy myself when I get stuck there, although it does make a wonderful excuse to lock yourself in your room and do nothing useful.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
Corri: The thing you and others, and even where I get hung up on boundaries... is doing the whole prediction of another's actions thing. All you can do is control YOU
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Cac: but wouldn't it be nice to have all the other stuff...and be able to play golf with him, too? its just "golf". there oughtta be a way to work it out. But throwing the whole kit-n-kaboodle out the window eliminates that possibilty. as does "bombing" someone in an ssm. there ought to be another way.
Well. This is what has happened to me. My boyfriend came down to see me. He told me he brought his golf clubs, just in case. And I said, "Just in case you want to go to the range? I have no problem with that." He poked and prodded me, teasingly, a few times to see, and I teased back, but I held firm.
Later we were sitting on the deck. He asked, seriously, if we could talk about what happened and my decision. I said sure. He asked me to explain to him what happened that made me feel as I did. I explained, and I used "I" as often as I could.
Then he said, you are right, I did act like that, I am sorry. But I'd like to ask you to give me another chance. I really like playing golf with you, I like us doing that together. I've signed up for lessons, and I swear to you, I won't act like that again.
I think I can do that. And the reasons I think I can do that are... he approached me about this, I didn't ever bring it up. He offered to change his ways. I didn't ask him to. He understands that if you want to be good at something, you have to practice. I didn't preach that to him. So I can do that.
The boundary is still in place.
So Cac... the OUTCOME of a boundary is not something that is cast in concrete. You and your boundary are only one half of the equation. Another CAN take make different decisions, if they so choose. There IS a way to work things out, but you have to let it unfold, instead of demanding another honor your boundary just because you say so.
The point of a boundary is not to make another person DO or NOT DO something. The point of the boundary is to define who you are, who you are not...
If my bf pulls his crap again, the boundary is still in place, and golf WILL be done. And I will know even more about him... can he control himself and keep his word.
This is where things get dicey. I'm the only one who can decide if he violates the boundary. It'll be easy if his behavior is anything like it was last weekend. I will follow a lot of Honeypot's advice, because this is something he does want to work on... he helped me through my crap... so I think it only fair and loving for me to do the same.
But we could not have gotten to THIS point, without my boundary. This all had to be his idea... just like it was my idea (from a long time ago), to work on my sexual issues.
And quite honestly, Cac, most HDs are willing to stick around if their LD spouse is showing genuine effort in addressing the sex issue. But it is far better that the LD spouse do that out of choice, as opposed to a threat. A threat rushes the process. "Start having sex with me or I'm leaving your sorry azz." A boundary indicates YOUR line and YOUR intent. IWNLIASM. Your actions following that statement define the proclamation. You may start sleeping on the couch. You may start dividing up bank accounts and changing how finances are run in the house. You start 'getting a life,' changing your mind set, etc., etc.
The ACTIONS you take are what communicates to the spouse you are serious. And you continue on that course. If they come to you offering an olive branch... THEN you can discuss, if you want. But you can't rush the process, or it comes across as a threat.
cac, You seem to be a little hung up on the whole boundary v. threat thing...I think this type of thinking can be lethal to a relationship, as it promotes a Do Nothing approach, since you *can't* enforce a boundary and you *won't* dole out a threat, kwim?
One of the things that I told my H a long while back was that I would get two twins for our bedroom and the queen would be gawn one day when he came home. Yeah it was a threat. Or a boundary. Whatever. The point was, then, that although I LOVED my life with him and I loved him, I would no longer participate in any kind of sham or show that we shared a bed for any other reason than snoozin. The cruddy part was that I said this in anger which no doubt tainted the whole comment and shoved it firmly to the threat side of the fence but I relate this example to say that there are alternatives to divorce other than sitting around miserable and pessimistic. One could also set up a guest bedroom for themselves. Sure, it stays within the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law, so to speak, but it also knocks a reluctant spouse off center and allows for a little more motivation on their part. Something about knowing "they aint going anywhere..." absolutely demotivates a person, even if they are the nicest most motivated spouse in their hearts. Another way is to take away the Loving Spouse part of the picture. Continue to provide, be a good dad, contribute to household maintenance, etc, but be conspicuously absent on Valentine's day, anniversaries, and so forth. Do this with a kind attitude, no vengeance. Turning the marital tides is pretty drastic stuff and so it requires pretty drastic measures, if you ask me. Just be prepared for her to lay down a few boundaries of her own!
However, your wife doesn't seem all that unmotivated so that's why I'm unsure as to why you are getting so deeply involved in this to begin with..? While I agree with you that past behavior is an accurate predictor, it is also true that people change quite often and so their future behavior will have to be predicted on new terms.
Also, just for the record, stubborn, relentless pessimism is unattractive. I even annoy myself when I get stuck there, although it does make a wonderful excuse to lock yourself in your room and do nothing useful.
great. we'll just add that to the list, then.
I really don't want to get into my medical history with you, but if you really want to read about ONE of my problems, you can go to this site: http://www.4hcm.org/WCMS/index.php?overview
anyone who wouldn't be "pessimistic" about this would need to be committed to a mental health institution. (and that overview page paints a rosey picture, too, glossing right over the side effects of the medications...to the docs only answer is "you just have to live with it").
Corri, that's great that it worked out. Now he knows that IF he acts up again, YOU won't play golf with him anymore.
...However, your wife doesn't seem all that unmotivated so that's why I'm unsure as to why you are getting so deeply involved in this to begin with..?
right. I'm just engaging in philisophical discussion. Most of this simply doesn't apply to our sitch...at least, not anymore. arguing over semantics...you know. I can tell you, though, that this "throundary" never would have worked for us at any time in the past. Its only available to a narrow segment of the population. but it seems to be the only advice available to all the people who come here, asking the same old question, "how do I get my spouse to wake up and smell the coffee". (a: threaten divorce.)
Another way is to take away the Loving Spouse part of the picture. Continue to provide, be a good dad, contribute to household maintenance, etc, but be conspicuously absent on Valentine's day, anniversaries, and so forth. Do this with a kind attitude, no vengeance.
sounds a little like "fighting for peace"...which, according to a bumper-sticker I saw recently, is like f*cking for population control.
Corri, that's great that it worked out. Now he knows that IF he acts up again, YOU won't play golf with him anymore.
No he doesn't. That never came up. I know it. The way the conversation went, it was a heart-to-heart, no funny business kind of talk. It wasn't a lecture. He asked, I provided the information he seemed to need to make a decision.
There is no RUSHING this. There is NO ISSUE at this moment. A threat always looms. A boundary is just... there.
I know this seems like a real subtle difference, and it is. But who initiates what, and when, does make a significant difference. Especially in attitude. And as NOP always says... attitude is very important in an R.
