Having some mixed success/failure, now what?

[Nomopo]

Man, I do hope so.

Ok, great. So we know your goal is still to save your M.

Where I really screwed up was, I shared something really special about our son, and it made me emotional. Oops.

Although you're vague about what was actually sad, this doesn't sound bad at all.

I told her that I know about the flight (she claims he was going to drive her back, I don't know yet how I feel about that yet).

WHy do you care? Is it a financil issue? Otherwise, it sounds like you care about principles.

I implied that I am in contact with her former lover (not true, but I've read enough of his website/poetry to pull it off).

This is not giving her the spac she needs. It sounds like stalking. You need to stop this. Focus on you. Give her space. Lovingly detach. I know it is hard. This is what you have to do. Dealing with affairs is very hard. Get your fears and thoughts and suspicions out here. It will be best if as far as she knows, you don't think about her and the OM at all, unless you decide to set a boundary, like you can't come home unless the A is over (which is something we should discuss here before you decide to do it - if you'd like help).

I flat out asked her if she was pregnant (she claims no, but as the hill folk sometimes say "the truth just ain't in her").

Pregnant by OM? I'd stop asking this. Why do you need to know now? You'll find out. Asking just fulfills your need to know this moment. Be patient.

When she said how much she loves our son, I kind of hit her with both barrels by saying "Yeah, just not enough to speak to a doctor or read a single book".

Still hung up on being right, what's fair and justice, huh? Is that more important to you than gettig a chance to reconcile? Because, despite being right, you are pushing her away. It sounds like an attempt to control her, to shame her into changing. It won't work.

I also told her that she is dealing with some very real addictions that she is not even aware of, and that I was fully concious of the fact that by my telling her that, I knew that it would make her more sure of the fact that she doesn't have any addictions (the psychology of that move was a little muddled, but it may work out that she will consider getting some help, who knows?)

I hope it works, but seems like a long shot. She's going to have to find her way out of this on her own. It will take a long time. You have to let go, and let her figure stuff out. Time and space. And patience. Keep focusing on you and your son.

I finally ended the call by telling her that we should keep things strictly business from now on, that I wished her the best in her life, and that I have to move on with mine.

Why? What's your thinking? What are you hoping to accomplish? Was this a deliberate comment, a DB strategy (could be), or your emotions talking?

I really kind of hate myself for a lot of that call, even for making her feel bad, but most of all I hate myself for the real truth:

I love her. I always have, and I fear that I always will.

Well then, what are you going to do? I say get past the blame game and the emotions, set your DB plan, and apply it as consistently as you can.

I don't mean to beat up on you too much. You are still early in this process and we all make (and have made) mistakes. The key is to learn from them, get etter at DBing, and keep trying.

Hope it helps,
Nomopo

[walkingcliche]

Thanks, Nomo.

Some of it is DB, some is just me. No, I can't handle having her here with me if she is continuing the affair. I don't really feel bad about that, even though I know it isn't helpful.

The "strictly business" comment was a protective measure, but I could alwys claim I am attempting the "after the last resort" measure if it makes you feel better. Doesn't make me feel any better, but whatever.

I don't want him driving her back because I don't want him around my son. The guy's a scuzball, simple as that.

Current update: Slept about 3 hours last night, in more pain than I have been in a while. Went to work this morning, sent her a text around 8:30 that said "I'm sorry I unloaded on you last night. I hope you are doing well." No immediate response. Around 10, I called MIL to talk to son, she told me he was still asleep (even though I soon heard him in the background). She then lit into me and eventually told me that I care more about the house than I do about my son ( I believe she is tired of having her daughter in the house, and has conveniently forgotten that I asked her to stay here and work things out, and that MIL offered for them to stay. It's all my fault, of course). I didn't rise to the bait, but it really hurt. I wanted to tell her that I love her daughter, that I am trying to save my family, and I couldn't give a sh*t about this house. But I couldn't, because I know she will probably never be on my side, at least not for a long time.

I really don't care about the house, and don't see any option but to sell it if I can. I do have a problem with leaving the house to W, as I am pretty confident that there will be another man in it before my side of the bed is cold, and (my weakness, I admit) I just don't want my son to be confused about who his daddy is.

Anyway, about 10 minutes after I got off the phone with MIL, W responded to my text with "Me too".

I am alternately hopeful and despondent. I'm putting the bravest face on that I can, and I know W is really trying in her own way.

I'll be as patient as I can, I really will. However, I do have to set some boundaries for myself. No apologies for that, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

[walkingcliche]

Special bonus: I'm home on lunch right now, MIL just left a message on the machine. Pure venom: My daughter is paying the mortgage on that house, you're having a great time on her dime, my daughter is coming home whether you like it or not, you want a fight you've got a fight, etc...

Crap.

[walkingcliche]

Okay. I have no read on this at all, but here's the latest:

Called W and, as diplomatically as possible, left a message explaining the situation. Also said that, with MIL in the middle, I have no idea what is W and what is MIL.

W called a little while later, we spoke, and she said that whatever was said was MIL, not her. We were both at work, and did not have much time to get into it, but I offered to speak with her about living arrangements if she wished, as they seemed to be causing some tension.

Now, I think I know what Nomopo's read on this will be, but I'm having trouble seeing any other way to honor myself while still giving her the chance to step up and do the minimum necessary to improve the situation. Unfortunately, the only option I see is:
Close up shop, move everyone's stuff out of the house, and put it on the market.

Letting her move back in with my son while I find somewhere else to live crosses my boundary regarding having another man in the house. I have a real problem with that.

I want very much to have the chance to share space with her, and see if we can find a way forward together, but I do feel the need to protect myself. Selfish? Perhaps. However, I am not willing live with her until and unless she ends the affair.

I know how bad this makes me look, and I also know that I'm not doing my marriage any favors by feeling this way. If anyone has any tips, I'd be glad to listen, but I'm really down to the basics here.

Yes, I am willing to get a divorce if it comes to that. No, I don't think I'm willing to just hang out while she has the best of both worlds. Sounds arrogant, I know, but I ask you to remember that my continual forgiveness of her transgressions and utter lack of personal boundaries played a huge role in bringing us to this point.

Show me what I'm not seeing if you can. Please.

[stewart10]

Walking:

In my opinion, you have every right to set that boundary. It is perfectly understandable that you do not want to share space with your W while she is carrying on and pursuing a relationship with another man. I do not believe you are being selfish at all and are acting perfectly rational. Just my opinion. And it is hard to deal with the MIL situation. She should not be getting involved in your relationship. Just remember to not get upset with your W for things MIL does which it seems like you are doing.

[Nomopo]

I don't really feel bad about that, even though I know it isn't helpful.

However, I do have to set some boundaries for myself. No apologies for that, and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

No problem there. I set the same boundary on my W. Told her choose him or me. If you choose him or don't choose in a week, then you need to leave the house and I am getting a L, a divorce and seeking full custody. She seems to have dropped him, but not for me, and the custody threat did a ton of damage we are still working through. Knowing what I know now I'm not sure I how I would handle it or what boundaries I would set, but that's your call, obviously.

The "strictly business" comment was a protective measure, but I could alwys claim I am attempting the "after the last resort" measure if it makes you feel better. Doesn't make me feel any better, but whatever.

Who gives a rat's ass how I feel about it????????? Sheesh.

If MIL keeps getting on your case, you may need to calmly set the record straight about your intentions with regard to your W, the house, your son and the living arrangements in light of the A, and that your W left against your wishes. She sounds like she is messing things up, so keep an eye on her. I think politely telling her that you are doing your best to save the M, and that you appreciate her concern, but that it would be best for her to just leave it to you and your W to handle.

Now, I think I know what Nomopo's read on this will be

Not sure how to take that, but you won't hurt my feelings at all if you want me to stay off the thread. Just let me know.

However, I am not willing live with her until and unless she ends the affair.

There's nothing wrong with this. It's simply your call. I'm not sure I'd dop anything different. I just don't know.

Yes, I am willing to get a divorce if it comes to that.

Ok.

Show me what I'm not seeing if you can. Please.

I'm not sure you're missing anything. It's your gig man.

Nomopo

[walkingcliche]

Not sure how to take that, but you won't hurt my feelings at all if you want me to stay off the thread. Just let me know.

Dear God, NO!

I'm not sure you're missing anything. It's your gig man.

Nomopo

Wow. That really means a lot to me. I hope you are right, because I just can't see my blinders right now.

Some further details on the MIL: W took a trip to see OM about 2 weeks after I told her we could get a divorce if she wanted to (thanks, Homer). She hadn't talked to a lawyer, filed, anything of that nature, so I'm comfortable calling it an affair. First night she was there, I did the good night call and noticed that her cell provider had to go through 4 seperate system transfers to find her handset (I sometimes hate knowing as much as I do about how the world really works). I had not yet begun the LRT in earnest yet, nor read DR, but I don't think I would have been able to resist if I had. After she spoke to our son, I said " I hope we didn't spoil your trip." Her reaction was, well, gratifying in the short term, however she did not come clean about it until much later when the evidence became unavoidable.

Anyway, while she was gone, MIL initiated contact with me on the grounds that she was worried about W, wanted to know if I thought the marriage could work, etc... The whole time knowing full well where W was and what (who) she was doing.

2 days after her return was when we had our 1 fight, at the same time W was booking her next visit (for his birthday).

No, I don't trust MIL as far as I can throw her (and with my knee, I shouldn't be throwing anyone).

[walkingcliche]

Oh, yeah. There was one more little emotional bonus to W's trip.

The day before she left, she made her first apology (regarding the earlier affair). I didn't slam her, but I did respond rather cooly. Coincedentaly, that same day I had our wedding rings cleaned as a forced show of optimism (she does not know any of this).

Yeah, it's my fault for caring, but man does it hurt sometimes.

[walkingcliche]

Well, that tears it: I'm getting a divorce.

I think I just broke every rule to DBing, but I did it calmingly and rationally. Crap.

Just spent an hour on the phone with W (first broken rule). I spoke plainly about what I have learned these last few months. I let her know that there is a better way, but that we would have to work on it together. She kept trying to jump ahead and point out problems from the past, and I did my best to validate her opinions, but I kept the drum beat on the idea that we can choose our own course, that everything is open.

At one point, I addressed the proposal she had sent over, pointed out that she has said that she was totally flexible and has reversed her position on several major sections, so it wasn't even worth discussing (that's a really major screw up on my game plan, I wanted to draw out the "reviewing process" at least another couple of weeks), and that if she really wants a divorce, she should go ahead and file. Oooops.

I think I kept my head pretty well, otherwise. No crying, no name calling (though I did point out the fact that she is having an affair, no matter how you slice it). Just plain talk about how to make this situation better.

I am totally and completely screwed.

[walkingcliche]

I feel kind of shameful replying to my self, but I'll get over it.

I've got kind of a wonky, self-deprecating sense of humor (not to mention a flair for the dramatic). Try not to take me too seriously.

Yeah, this is serious stuff, and today has brought some less than stellar developments, but I still haven't given up. It may have seemed that way in my previous post, so I'm going to identify some possible positives:

-In one sense, the talk today was "more of the same" behavior. In another, it was anything but. For example: She asked me if I was still there no less than 6 different times. I guess she just isn't used to me listening to what she has to say.

-In every relationship, there is a pursuer and a withdrawer. I have always been the pursuer, and to some extent still am. I am working on this, but due to some of the outside pressures forcing our hands today, I think we both did really well falling into our old short hand, yet not falling into our "fightin' ways".

-Very early on, she commented that she is very frustrated by how everyone else (i.e. her family) keeps getting involved in something that should be "just between us". I carefully, and not unkindly, pointed out that she has brought many people into a situation that was always meant to be that way. I resisted any emotional outbursts or accusations, and just made my point without bitterness or gratuitous examples. I did crib a few lines from the "not-so-great escape" chapter about the "divorce steering commitee. She was very quiet, possibly dismissive, but I don't think so. I think she was matching the truth of my words to her own experiences. Perhaps I was just "trying to be right" again, but there has to come a time for the truth, right?

-For the first time in well over a month, I have admitted that I do not want a divorce. Never have. Hopefully not too much damage was done last night, but I feel really confident that (at least a few times) she has wanted to hear this recently. Maybe just a power thing, maybe not.

-I was able to point out some boundaries for myself, unapologetically and with kindness. May not help the chances of saving my marriage, but I feel good about it.

Last, but certainly not least, tommorrow is the luckiest day of the millenium. No real contact planned, and I've got a party to go to, but I still hope for something great. If not, oh well, but I'll still hope if it's okay with you.

Well, I feel better. How 'bout you?