Now don't you get my hopes up, guru (you know we take your word as truth around here! )! You know as well as I do it is feels good to hope for all of this, but to be pretty certain of it is stretching things...I do appreciate the support on it though -- thanks! I guess the idea doesn't hurt, but like Kat said -- need to get over it now and move on.
So true, you can't spend any time trying to get in her head (or her friends head), or at least no more than a moment, and then you have to let it go. But, hey, this is not my sitch. I can! LOL. And although I certainly don't KNOW, if I had to bet I'd stand by my initial read. Now, back to work for you!
Nomopo
M 39 W 39 M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs S7 D4 Bomb 5-8-05 W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22 DB 4-10 S 6-11 No more C Link
Can be a tough sell in many ways, although easier in others. Good job!
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I don't think of it as manipulation. I think of it as putting the Charm out there.
I agree with that -- guess I couldn't come up with a better term or a better way to describe it at the time, but it certainly does fit into the manipulation category by Michele's definition (and I think in a + way). I figure that if W and I were to work things out, I would need to be more open and friendly with her friends anyway because this is something I realized a little while back that I rarely did. I was often critical of her friends too, so I think last night was a 180 in that old behavior. It felt good and I think I'll add it to my change list (should've done it before).
Journaling,
W dropped the kids off a little after 6:00 this morning. I answered the door kind of half awake, so I wasn't really thinking clearly. After she gave the kids hugs and told them goodbye, she looked up at me, pointed at her face with both hands and with a sort of embarrassing laugh said, "Yeah." At first I thought she was kind of apologizing about her hair or something because she hadn't done it yet, so I just "That's okay." Then she said "It's been a bad 3 weeks." Then it dawned on me that she was talking about the absess on her nose, but I couldn't see it very well so I didn't even notice at first. However, being sleepy I didn't even think to say anything like, "I'm sorry," or "Is it getting any better (meaning the days or weeks)," or "What did the Dr. say?", etc. In fact, I don't think I said anything except maybe "that sucks," -- and I'm not even sure about that. We then said goodbye and she left.
I think the fact that she seemed concerned and/or a little embarrassed about me seeing her face also says that my opinion about her looks matters to her, though I might be over-emphasizing this thought as a positive.
I didn't even think to say anything like, "I'm sorry," or "Is it getting any better (meaning the days or weeks)," or "What did the Dr. say?", etc. In fact, I don't think I said anything except maybe "that sucks," -- and I'm not even sure about that. We then said goodbye and she left.
Stop beating yourself up. It is not that big of a deal. It was 6:00am.
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I think the fact that she seemed concerned and/or a little embarrassed about me seeing her face also says that my opinion about her looks matters to her, though I might be over-emphasizing this thought as a positive.
That is a positive sign. To alleviate any stress/anxiety, people will make you aware of what is bothering them, then they can relax. For ex. Public speaking causes people to be stressed and they will say to the crowd, I am nervous, this is my 1st time, etc. This relieves all pressure.
OneWish's Story
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
Stop beating yourself up. It is not that big of a deal. It was 6:00am.
You're right, I know. It's just that I rarely have contact with W (basically only when she calls or when she picks up/drops off the kids about once a week), so I want those interactions to go as well as possible. It's not that it went bad, it was just neutral and I expect more from myself right now (this is crunch time for me!). I want to be as prepared as possible to deal with whatever comes my way, whether it is her giving alien spew (which doesn't seem to happen anymore), confiding in me, talking about everyday things, etc. I need to be on my toes, and until the changes I've made and continue to make become second nature to me (esp when talking to W), I really have to think before I talk, act, etc. I don't criticize her, get angry with her, guilt trip her, etc, anymore, but what I'm still trying to work on is really trying to listen to what she says and just validate & empathize. I'm also trying to find moments where I can slip in a subtle compliment, joke, or statement of appreciation without it seeming forced or pursuant. I think I've backed off enough and for long enough now that things are getting comfortable enough for these efforts to begin happening (wow, that's a lot of enoughs!). Every moment of every interaction counts, and I just want to make the most of them.
Quote: I think the fact that she seemed concerned and/or a little embarrassed about me seeing her face also says that my opinion about her looks matters to her, though I might be over-emphasizing this thought as a positive.
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That is a positive sign.
The more I think about it, the more I feel like I'm really reaching for positives that aren't there. I mean, maybe it's a positive that she's comfortable enough with me to comment on it, but I shouldn't be viewing it as something that hints to her peaking over the castle wall.
Time will only tell, and I'm willing to continue working on it all post-D too. I think she will need to see my changes stick for quite some time before she's willing to invest in me. I believe she needs to see me doing what I'm doing now after the D so she can be sure I'm not just changing to stop the D and win her back. And even then, we may only be able to be friends (but hey, that's better than enemies I guess!).
Started 5LL last night and am hoping to finish by tomorrow sometime. We'll see if it will be beneficial to address her PLL once I discover what it is...I will be hoping to get some of your opinions on this when the time comes.
Sounds like you did a great job with your pals fiance. Trust me everything you discussed will get back to the W if she woman is a gossiper by nature. Gossipy women just can't help it. If they got it they dish it. Which in this case will probably work in your favor.
Here you are, out with your buddy & his girl, having a good time, not a care in the world. This is exactly the type of thing that gets our (WAW) attention.
Your W will probably be dismayed that here name did not come up, which is good in this case. You need to peek her interest and keep her interested in what GD is doing.
I cannot imagine what your are going through with the OM in the picture so I don't really have much to add about that. As far as the texting, can't know for sure but it prob was more about you than OM since you were there. I hope it all gets back to W gets her thinking about you.
Hugs. Hope this works how you want it too
Me: 30 EX-H: 37 DD: 5 Separated 6/07. MC for months, EX-H quit MC. Divorce Final 8/14/08. Trying to move on with new life.
Here you are, out with your buddy & his girl, having a good time, not a care in the world. This is exactly the type of thing that gets our (WAW) attention.
[. . .]
You need to peek her interest and keep her interested in what GD is doing.
This stuff is GOLD!!! Thanks WAW.
M 39 W 39 M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs S7 D4 Bomb 5-8-05 W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22 DB 4-10 S 6-11 No more C Link
The best thing to do is to listen and validate. If you can, try to think about things and get back to her the next day if she asks you questions that are important. Just be friendly and happy.
You are doing well. You sound like you are working over load trying to make sure everything is perfect and waiting to make a funny comment. I am sure you W sees that you are trying really hard. The harder they see us try, the more they sense pressure. The best way to handle it is as a preference. Try a 180 and ignore her and see how that works. Showering her with attention is not working. Next time you exchange the kids, be all dressed up like you are going out and leave in a hurry. Keep looking at your watch. You need to ger her curiosity button activated. Be brief. Say it has been great, I need to go now. Good night. Leave in a happy mood and see how she responds.
OneWish's Story
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
I am sure you W sees that you are trying really hard. The harder they see us try, the more they sense pressure.
Actually O, I don't think she sees me trying very hard at all. I'm DBing very hard, and because of this I don't think she senses any anxiety on my end when she is around or when I talk to her on the phone. I've called her about 5 times in the last 5 weeks, and only regarding scheduling with the kids. She has called me about twice as many times about the same stuff, so I'm allowing her to make the majority of the contact. I do dwell on her a lot, and that is a mistake I need to work on (my detaching mentally isn't that good, and I know it). However, on the outside, I don't think she sees me pushing at all. I think she does see me as detached, and I'm planning to keep it that way. That being said, I do plan on trying to meet her needs in ways that don't seem like I'm pursuing. I think trying to be her best friend by being there for her when she needs someone is a good idea, and I think I can do this while seeming confident and completely detached.
Going to journal here soon, but thought I'd respond on that for now.
You sound like you are working over load trying to make sure everything is perfect and waiting to make a funny comment. I am sure you W sees that you are trying really hard. The harder they see us try, the more they sense pressure. The best way to handle it is as a preference. Try a 180 and ignore her and see how that works. Showering her with attention is not working. Next time you exchange the kids, be all dressed up like you are going out and leave in a hurry. Keep looking at your watch. You need to ger her curiosity button activated. Be brief. Say it has been great, I need to go now. Good night. Leave in a happy mood and see how she responds.
GD has been dark for a while. He has limited contact with his wife, so he is focused on making the most of the very limited contact/opportunities he does have. Also, I wouldn't say he has been showering her with attention. Only recently has he contemplated gaoing beyond dark to send subtle messages in her primary LL.
M 39 W 39 M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs S7 D4 Bomb 5-8-05 W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22 DB 4-10 S 6-11 No more C Link
)! You know as well as I do it is feels good to hope for all of this, but to be pretty certain of it is stretching things...I do appreciate the support on it though -- thanks! I guess the idea doesn't hurt, but like Kat said -- need to get over it now and move on.