...If he changes... great, we might play golf together again.
...It's that my actions aren't based on anything he may or may not do.
that's a contradiction.
and why would he have changed before, if (giving him the benefit of the doubt), he didn't really know how much this behavior upset you? why should he change now? if he does, how would you know? you're not golfing with him anymore...you won't see it.
And just because you say "IWNLIASM,' does not mean you HAVE to walk out the door immediately. well, no, there wouldn't be any point, because that phrase is a warning of future outcome. It would be like a cop shouting "stop! or I'll {bang!} shoot!"
To be analagous to your golf boundary, you couldn't deliver it "just before" walking out...it could only be delivered from your new residence (be that a motel room, a depressing appartment, a tramp steamer, or simply a van down by the river), and it would have to be in the form of "I have stopped living in a SM".
So you think that if you say "IWNLIASM," that walking out the door or divorcing her is you only option of action?
That's what you and others appear to be saying.
That's pretty black and white. I can see why this is such a difficult thing for you to grasp. Very binary.
That sounds to me like someone who fundamentally believes that other people don't want to give him what he wants, of course not. Since the thing that the person in question wants requires the other person to partake equally, and that other person being LD, by definition, doesn't like it/want it as much...they don't want to give him what he wants.
that they don't care about what he wants or they think he doesn't deserve to get what he wants, "not attractive". and that they can only be motivated to give him what he wants through bribes or threats. If that's the case, of course, a threat has to be credible or it won't work, and if following through on the threat is worse than doing without what he wants and he can't bluff properly, then the other person doesn't have a reason in the world to give him what he wants and he's stuck doing without. exactly.
In a marriage that's not about to blow up, this isn't the case. The people want to meet each other's needs, but can't at the moment for some reason. Occasionally a good dose of fear helps them get over what was in their way and they see things more clearly and meet the other's needs better. It may look like the "giving in to a threat" above, but it's not the same thing... the person on the receiving end is doing what she wished she could do all along, and is grateful for being "pushed" into it, rather than feeling like one who has "given in". See Cadesmom34's threads for a more detailed illustration. well...more tenuous, here. while it may not be "giving in" to a threat, it was certainly a response to one. and it took a "bomb" to get anything to change.
Sometimes you can become more attractive in some ways, by gaining confidence, achieving goals, eliminating unattractive habits, and so forth, and help spark the desire in her that she wishes she felt and make it a lot easier for her to meet your need that she wanted, but felt unable to, meet all along. This is the storybook part. because for some people, their most unattractive attributes are also those over which they have the least control. rock--"that person"--hard place.
It all depends on what's holding the other person back from meeting your needs. Whatever it is, your spouse may need your help to get past it. If she can't get past it, she feels remorse, and she feels disappointment and fear, or, annoyance and anger because you won't just give up already, and let it go. ...and if you just let it go without even mentioning it, she feels relief that you can do without it after all and she hasn't failed you, and isn't about to bring it up herself and remind you what you're missing. nope. that would just be askin' for trouble.
My actions are about me. My self-respect. I have not contradicted myself.
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and why would he have changed before, if (giving him the benefit of the doubt), he didn't really know how much this behavior upset you?
I have no idea. Up until this past weekend, I could stomach the behavior he had displayed so far. I wasn't real thrilled about it, but I could live with it. What he pulled this weekend, I cannot. Since I can't handle it, then it's up to me to solve my problem. I did.
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why should he change now? if he does, how would you know? you're not golfing with him anymore...you won't see it.
I don't know why he should or should not change. His behavior and his actions aren't up to me. They are up to him. And really... regardless of my actions... why SHOULD he change? Why should he have to? Ever? If he wants to act like that... I don't care. I just have no desire to be around when he does.
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So you think that if you say "IWNLIASM," that walking out the door or divorcing her is you only option of action?
That's what you and others appear to be saying.
It is one possible outcome. It's probably best to be able to accept all possible outcomes, because once you do, you have regained control of your own life. If you are unwilling to divorce, period, there are other things you can do. For example, you can move to the other side of the globe and drop all marital responsibilities, and not get a divorce.
The thing you and others, and even where I get hung up on boundaries... is doing the whole prediction of another's actions thing. All you can do is control YOU. In my golf example, all I am doing is controlling me and my actions. I have respected myself and solved my problem. If he now has a problem based on my decision and actions... then it is going to be up to him to solve it. That's all the further I am willing to go on this issue, right now, because anything else is pure conjecture on my part.
I will deal as it unfolds, IF it unfolds. Period. If not, the issue is resolved, and I am free to love him exactly as he is.
This is the storybook part. because for some people, their most unattractive attributes are also those over which they have the least control.
Which people? Why would their unattractive attributes be out of their control?
If it's their looks or smell, these things can be fixed. Not always with ease, but it can be done.
If it's their confidence level, there are ways to fix that. Get out of the house, set some goals and meet them, prove themselves and overcome their own doubts.
Bad habits of thought and action that reduce our attractiveness, even full-blown addictions, can be broken. If someone's having trouble with it, a doctor, psychiatrist, or counselor can help. Seriously.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
I don't know why he should or should not change. His behavior and his actions aren't up to me. They are up to him. And really... regardless of my actions... why SHOULD he change? Why should he have to? Ever? If he wants to act like that... I don't care. I just have no desire to be around when he does.
but wouldn't it be nice to have all the other stuff...and be able to play golf with him, too? its just "golf". there oughtta be a way to work it out. But throwing the whole kit-n-kaboodle out the window eliminates that possibilty. as does "bombing" someone in an ssm. there ought to be another way. but instead: ...you can move to the other side of the globe and drop all marital responsibilities, and not get a divorce. {sigh} there's my peave, again. take something negative, and attempt to polish it up by giving it a new "nicer sounding" name...and then the "thing" won't be so negative. thats how we went from "crippled", to "handicapped", to "disabled"...now on to something that borders on untrue or at the very least, inaccurate: "differently abled". drives me nuts. and its just another form of denial. anyway...its the same thing.
The thing you and others, and even where I get hung up on boundaries... is doing the whole prediction of another's actions thing. All you can do is control YOU true, about who you can control. but unlike the stock market, in most human endeavors, past performance IS in fact, indicative of likely future results. Its why they make us study history. Unfortunately, most don't apply the lessons, and get burned, again and again.
Sorry. I was speaking of cac's insistance that credibly threatening to leave and putting up with an SSM were the only options for dealing with an SSM.
Thats not what I'm insisting. That's what others are insisting when they tout the IWNLIASM "boundary". I'm saying that there ought to be another way...one that isn't so stark, so extreme, so "black and white". I guess that no one has found one, so the next best thing we can figure out is to take a "threat", and make up a psycho-babble word for it that doesn't sound so bad, and use that instead.
...If someone's having trouble with it, a doctor, psychiatrist, or counselor can help. Seriously.
more "storybook". there are things that these people can't cure. In fact, some of their prescribed methods, while they may extend lives, actually exacerbate the unattractive effects of the underlying conditions. you know--for these theoretical individuals.
