Having some mixed success/failure, now what?

[walkingcliche]

Damn it. It happened again.

I want to be angry. I want to be hurt. I want to give up.

Unfortunately, writing it all out (as I did above) just gives me more reason to hope. Think about it: The photo contest info (she said she saw a flyer for it at starbucks, must have been thinking about me or she wouldn't have sent it), the offer to give me a better financial settlement than originally offered (kindness/compasion towrds my well being), the gratitude and appreciation of the photos I sent. These are all little tiny hints of progress.

Of course she hasn't read any books about this. That's my thing, not hers. I can't even guess what she has or hasn't been thinking or doing, because the information is just not available to me. To be realistic, I figure I would not approve or agree with what she has been up to, but tough. That's life.

It would be so much easier if I could just give up, but, as I always say: "If it was easy, they wouldn't need me to do it."

Gonna go get some grub. Here's one to try on your freinds, and it can take weeks to get it (it's all in the pronunciation):

A toothless termite walks into a tarvern and asks "Is the bar tender here?"

[walkingcliche]

Hmmmm, interesting.

Just after the last post, I got the good night call. The plan is, she will be bringing him over some time tomorrow afternoon so I can take him to the fireworks display nearby. After we settled that, she said: "I don't want to intrude, but would it be okay if I, you know, tagged along?"

Part of me wants to kick myself for my response:"That's kind of a delicate subject. If you get a chance, could you call me when (the boy) isn't around so we could discuss it?"

Part wants to kick, part wants to pat myself on the back.

I also told her that I appreciated her asking, and that it meant a lot to me. She hasn't called yet, but I plan on letting her know that I think her asking shows a lot of real courage and strength, but that I have consider what my son may think.

This is not BS on my part. My folks are still married, so I don't really know first hand, but I keep finding references to the idea that children of divorce will never really "get over it". The best you can hope for is to give them the room they need to greave (sp?) the loss of their parents relationship, without a lot of confusing and muddled mixed signals.

It may sound harsh, but I've spent most of our R talking until I was blue in the face, but I never had any teeth. I told her where her thinking was flawed, I offered her what I thought were better solutions to whatever situation we were facing, but I always just let her do what she was going to do anyway. In short, I let her walk all over me.

No more.

Of course I want her to come. Of course I want the chance to show her what a great family we could be. Of course I want my son to enjoy the holiday with both of his parents, together and having a great time.

But, she has to carry her share of the load for a change. It really is just that simple.

If she wants to come, she will have to offer some sign, in my language, that she thinks we could possibly work through this together. She has spoken volumes recently in her own language, and I do appreciate that, but for this she is just going to have to reach a little further.

I hope she will. I really do.

[Nomopo]

If you re-read your post carefully, I think you will see a number of comments you made that suggest you are more concerned with being right (aka the blame game) than finding solutions and saving your M:

It may sound harsh, but I've spent most of our R talking until I was blue in the face, but I never had any teeth. I told her where her thinking was flawed, I offered her what I thought were better solutions to whatever situation we were facing, but I always just let her do what she was going to do anyway. In short, I let her walk all over me.

No more.

I didn't sound harsh, it sounds bitter/angry, and like you're letting your emotions drive your decision. You blame her because you did so much and she didn't.

Of course I want her to come. Of course I want the chance to show her what a great family we could be. Of course I want my son to enjoy the holiday with both of his parents, together and having a great time.

But????

But, she has to carry her share of the load for a change. It really is just that simple.

Ohhh, I see. It's the principle of the thing. Right now, while she is a WAS who is thinking of walking away, and who is deciding whether to stay, and while your objective is to plant a seed of doubt in her mind so she doesn't, you have decided it would be better to take a stand on principle, and to try to get your needs (for her to make an effort, to try) met. It might work, I guess, but it might not.

If she wants to come, she will have to offer some sign, in my language, that she thinks we could possibly work through this together.

And she has to offer that sign right now, at this very moment, while she is deciding whether or not to walk away. Let's face it, you're taking a stand that right now she needs to decide to work on it. You're calling the question. I can't tell you how many times I have read on these boards about LBS's pushing their WAS for a decision now. It doesn't usually go their way. Go read GoneDancing's sitch history or WAW1978's thread.

She has spoken volumes recently in her own language, and I do appreciate that, but for this she is just going to have to reach a little further.

Again, instead of giving her the time and space she needs while she is deciding, and simply trying to plant seeds of doubt, you have decided this is the time to take a stand and get your needs for her to work on the M met, right now. I agree she needs to make that decision to work on the M for things to work out. I'm just not at all sure that forcing that issue right now or on your timeline is wise. It's another form of pressure, pursuit, chasing, controlling, etc. You see that right?

I hope she will. I really do.

How badly do you hope for that? As you said, she has offered you a chance to create a very positive interaction.

Finally, on your kid (how old again?) being damaged by mixed signals and confusion, which is more likely to damage him: the mixed signals of her taggng along on the 4th or the reality of a D. I'd isk some mixed signals now if there is a chance to save the M and have your child ultimately be raised in a two-parent, loving home.

Don't take this the wrong way. I offer these comments for you to consider because I want to help, but it seems to me like your emotions have taken over a bit and are clouding your thinking/attitude/approach here.

Hope it helps,
Nomopo

PS - I hope you get this before she calls back.

[walkingcliche]

Well, she never called back. No problem there.

Good advice, Nomopo (one of these days I'm gonna have to find out about that name).

You have a very good point. Points, actually. I do admit that my detachment has suffered a bit the last few days, and I appreciate the reality check.

In all honesty, during my walk around the block waiting for her to call, I was weighing 2 possible responses:
1. That which is detailed above.
2. Just saying "Okay".

I want to take the risk, man. You know I do. I even bought some extra steak for the grill in hopes that she would be here.

Yeah, you know there is a "but" to that. I could get detailed, list her crimes and potential for further hurt, but it all comes down to one thing: I am scared.

Scared for myself, yes, but mostly scared for my son. I know I have to accept that my situation is not fair, I know I have to accept that I'm going to have to eat a lot of sh*t that I don't necessarily deserve, I know that the big prize is worth ignoring all the easier to attain consolation prizes. I know all of this.

But, (there it is again) I also know that I have had exactly 1 fight with her mother since all this started. That fight culminated in my questioning W's commitment to our son, and my M-I-L responding by questioning my own mother's fitness to raise a child (i.e. Me).

That same day, unbeknownst to either of us, W was booking a 1-way flight out of our lives forever (or so she believed at the time).

Every gain I have made in this sitch seems to have come from me doing the real 180: That of no longer taking her crap, not letting her off the hook as I have so many times before. Sure, I'm confused, scared, alternately pissed off at her or myself, all that stuff. However, (hey, I found a way to avoid "but")taking charge and not backing down from what I believe in seem to be working for me.

Here is my compromise: If and when she calls to discuss it, I will leave the decision to her, but ask her to consider our son's feelings. Fair enough?

P.S. He's 3.5 years old, and the greatest kid ever. No, I am not biased.

[walkingcliche]

Note: When I said I'm not taking her crap and not letting her off the hook, please remember that I am not arguing with her, pointing out her flaws, anything like that. I am just not letting her get the rise out of me that she is expecting, and working hard to show that I do not need or want her in my life.

Most of what I talk about on here is going on in my own head. Direct confrontation has been very minimal.

Which is yet another reason you are right, nomopo. I was gearing up for a fight and didn't even realize it.

I can't thank you enough, man. "Okay" it is.

Maybe. I think I really just need some sleep, so I'm going to go get some.

Still, thank you. I mean it.

[Nomopo]

Hi!

one of these days I'm gonna have to find out about that name

Not that interesting really.

In all honesty, during my walk around the block waiting for her to call, I was weighing 2 possible responses:
1. That which is detailed above.
2. Just saying "Okay".

Note that in the above-detailed response you really had two alternatives you seemed to be weighing.

I am scared.

Fair enough. And I am too. A lot. This is serious serious serious stuff. Go read in my thread about my talk with my S6 and D4 about our separation (6/9), and you'll get real honest look at how serious this is.

Is there more to the fear that is influencing how you handle W's request than the fear of what it will do to your son?

I know I have to accept that my situation is not fair, I know I have to accept that I'm going to have to eat a lot of sh*t that I don't necessarily deserve, I know that the big prize is worth ignoring all the easier to attain consolation prizes. I know all of this.

And also that for a while you will do the lion's hare (if not all) of the work and W won't be able/willing to do much of anything to help.

But, (there it is again) I also know that I have had exactly 1 fight with her mother since all this started. That fight culminated in my questioning W's commitment to our son, and my M-I-L responding by questioning my own mother's fitness to raise a child (i.e. Me).

Hmmmm. I don't quite understand this. It is disturbing that MIL would say that, and at some level that you found yourself in a fight with MIL. Perhaps more importantly for now, how is this relevant to your W's request to join you tomorrow?

Every gain I have made in this sitch seems to have come from me doing the real 180: That of no longer taking her crap, not letting her off the hook as I have so many times before. Sure, I'm confused, scared, alternately pissed off at her or myself, all that stuff. However, (hey, I found a way to avoid "but")taking charge and not backing down from what I believe in seem to be working for me.

Well now, ok. This makes sense to me. If this is really true, then maybe you are on the right path with how you are considering handling it. You said "seems." Think about it and try to be sure if you can. It also seems to me that even those of us taking a strong stand, if you will, at some point need to open up for positive connection. That time may not be now in your sitch, but doesn't it make sense that at some point you have to stop giving them tough love, teaching them lessons, and just connect?

Here is my compromise: If and when she calls to discuss it, I will leave the decision to her, but ask her to consider our son's feelings. Fair enough?

You have to decide what is best/right. And don't worry about getting it wrong; there will likely be plenty of other chances. But make a choice, implement it, and monitor results.

I just have to say again though that I don't see your W joining you tomorrow with your 3.5 year old son will be irreversibly damaging to him. In fact, maybe just the time with each of you is worth more than any damage it might do for him to be confused. I'm no expert on this stuff, but that's just my feeling as a parent of two.

He's 3.5 years old, and the greatest kid ever. No, I am not biased.

I'm sure he is AWESOME!

Good luck buddy,
Nomopo

[Nomopo]

Didn't see this one until my last post.

Note: When I said I'm not taking her crap and not letting her off the hook, please remember that I am not arguing with her, pointing out her flaws, anything like that. I am just not letting her get the rise out of me that she is expecting, and working hard to show that I do not need or want her in my life.

Most of what I talk about on here is going on in my own head. Direct confrontation has been very minimal.

Understood and good.

I was gearing up for a fight and didn't even realize it.

Excellent. "More of the same" behavior? Now you have a "do something different" strategy or a 180 to add to your arsenal. Monitor results (although this first experiment might be slightly altered by your initial phone reaction).

I can't thank you enough, man.

I truly hope it helps. Can visit my thread some time and let me know what you think. It is easier to see clearly in other's thread than your own.

"Okay" it is.

That sounds good/real good to me. I hope she calls back and still wants to come. (Note - in my last post I suggested you may want to stick with your harder line stand because you said you feel like it has helped, so consider that too, but personally I don't see you going wrong with "okay."

Good night,
Nomopo

Maybe. I think I really just need some sleep, so I'm going to go get some.

Still, thank you. I mean it. [/quote]

[Atlas]

WC,

I understand your feeling on calling her on this! That is all I want to do, I'm great at it. For some odd reason my pointing out the obvious just doesn't seem to go over well. Go figure. The more in life I keep my mouth shut and lot let someone get the expected rise out me, the better things turn. I have actually gotten raises at work this way.

[walkingcliche]

Finally talked to her, told her the decision was her's. Even apologized for "being caught off-gaurd" last night. I'd like to thank the academy...

I'm gonna go take a walk and try to get my PMA back before I have to see her tonight. I have to admit, though: More and more I find myself thinking that I just don't want to continue my life with her in any way. I mean, I know divorce is essentially impossible when there is a kid involved, but I can't escape the thought that I can do better. Much better.

I'll keep trying to give her the chance that she never gave me, and I will play it just as cool as anyone could want me to, and we'll see what happens. I'll thank myself for it in 10 years, I'm sure. I just won't bother getting my hopes up for something that I may not even want. Deal?

P.S. Maybe it's just another coincidence, but I can't help but remember that the name of this holiday is Independence Day.

Let's all go watch some fireworks.

[Atlas]

WC,

You know the more I think about your post, and all of our situations, I think it is important to set these goals and follow them.

Your most important emotion is having her back, you want this more than anything. I'm in the same sitch, but now is not the time to hold her feet to the fire, even when it is it will only be effective if she is willing to face it.

I know you want nothing more when she calls to give her a piece of your mind, but that moves you towards a short term goal, standing up for yourself, but further from the long range goal of her being back.

Eventually when she comes back all of that will have to be addressed for now though, you just keep the smile and good times rolling.

Happay fourth!