I was not saying that us guys choose badly. What I am trying to grasp is how a relationship with a women is completely ILLOGICAL. Apparently, women want men that will DUMP them! If I show my desire for my wife and also vow to keep my marriages vows, this will cause her to LOSE desire for me. But if I come out and say that I will have a great love life and I will dump your sorry #ss if you can not deliver on this, then somehow this is supposed to make her really HOT for me.
This is really tough to handle, being NICE in marriage is NOT a good thing. Women supposedly want men that will dump them as soon as they step out of line. So making a marriage vow is a BAD thing.
This really is hard to grasp when your religion tells you one thing, but the reality is that us guys must be willing to DROP our wives as soon as they turn fridgid. Makes my head spin.
I don't think that is an accurate understanding of what it is people have been telling you.
Corri
well...you did tell me that if I wasn't willing to walk, then I don't have an actual "boundary" (IWNLIASM)...just a "preference", and that without such boundaries, sitches such as ours (ssm-sufferers in general) will not improve. ergo...
I don't see how he's that far off. OR.... I don't get it, either.
well...you did tell me that if I wasn't willing to walk, then I don't have an actual "boundary" (IWNLIASM)...just a "preference", and that without such boundaries, sitches such as ours (ssm-sufferers in general) will not improve. ergo...
I don't see how he's that far off. OR.... I don't get it, either.
I don't see why you can't draw a boundary and be nice about it. If the person doesn't comply with the boundary, I don't see how that makes YOU the azz.
And non-placating behavior is what I see as the fuel for attraction, not threats of being dumped (which is a threat, not a boundary), or a man acting like an azzhole (see my own thread).
Plus, if a man says to me, "have really hot sex with me or I'm going to dump your sorry azz," I will be more than happy to say in return: "well, honey, don't let the door hit you in the azz on your way out."
I don't see why you can't draw a boundary and be nice about it.
because that particular boundary, (or the result of violating it) aren't nice.
If the person doesn't comply with the boundary, I don't see how that makes YOU the azz. didn't say that it did
...And non-placating behavior is what I see as the fuel for attraction, In my experience, it was fuel for anger and resentment, and "placating" at least quelled some of that. neither was fuel for attraction. ...not threats of being dumped (which is a threat, not a boundary), its the same exact result, which, to me, means that it means exactly the same thing. "half full/half empty"...the slightly positive or slightly negative spin is ancillary. the main message is that some vessel is filled to 50% of its capacity; expressing it optimistically or pessimistically doesn't change anything; the fact remains the same. Its like dealing with a car salesman. "we prefer "more affordeable" to "cheap""... "oh-cut-the-bs-and-just-tell-me-how-much-the-f@king-thing-costs" to ME, "IWNLIASM" is car-salesman-speak for "have really hot sex with me or I'm going to dump your sorry azz".
because that particular boundary, (or the result of violating it) aren't nice.
Nice to whom? Is it 'nice' living in a SSM?
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In my experience, it was fuel for anger and resentment, and "placating" at least quelled some of that. neither was fuel for attraction.
As I don't know the specifics, I can't agree or disagree.
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its the same exact result, which, to me, means that it means exactly the same thing. "half full/half empty"...the slightly positive or slightly negative spin is ancillary. the main message is that some vessel is filled to 50% of its capacity; expressing it optimistically or pessimistically doesn't change anything; the fact remains the same.
Fine. Just because you choose to see it that way does not mean it is accurate, nor the boundary applied accurately.
As for the half full/half empty analogy. I'd say that isn't exactly true either. Consider the same glass of half full/half empty water. If I am parched and near dying of thirst, I'd bet the farm, I'd see the glass of water as half empty. Now. Let's say I just downed a gallon of water and I am no where close to thirsty. I am now considering the same glass of water. I'd bet the farm I am going to see it as half full.
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Its like dealing with a car salesman. "we prefer "more affordeable" to "cheap""...
And you only bicker over the words if you are in the market for a car. If you really want the car, it's your dream come true... you just want to know how much. If you're not in the market for a car, I'd bet you could care less how a salesman chooses to word it.
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"IWNLIASM" is car-salesman-speak for "have really hot sex with me or I'm going to dump your sorry azz".
And I'd immediately ask you... "so how's that working out for you?"
And I'd immediately ask you... "so how's that working out for you?" it works out fine, so long as I ONLY speak to other engineers...who wouldn't assume that the vessel to which I previously referred contained water, and then go on to pollute that data through their own personal bias, based on their present requirements for a substance that I never mentioned.
Actually saying to someone: "have really hot sex with me or I'm going to dump your sorry azz."
And you really think there aren't more and/or less effective ways of communicating? well, you don't have to be crass about it.
But seriously, I know I can't talk to others like that, but I'd honestly prefer that they talk to me that way. Because it IS a much more effective form of communication. spare me the BS; it only clouds the issue. just give me the numbers. Covering up unpleasantness with flowery words is just another form of deception. and its just one of my "pet peaves"..."pc talk", speaking in euphamisms, changing words that define a negative condition, in an effort to make that condition something other than it is...its a waste of human energy.
anyway... back to what Cemar said, that got me started (again)... "women only like men that will dump them"
"women are attracted to men who uphold the "IWNLIASM" boundary"
same thing as far as I'm concerned. because if you don't do x...y will happen.
and it seems more than just a bit extreme. You shouldn't have to go to such lengths. maybe ya do, and that's just the way it is. It would be one thing to have a boundary like "If you don't pick up your socks...I won't put them in the laundry". that seems reasonable. W has her laundry boundaries, but she doesn't have to threaten divorce over it, because she knows...I will not live in a socks-less marriage. ok, seriously...I don't mean to imply that hosiery is as important to a R as a healthy SL, but my point is that there are far worse things that could happen to many (if not most) of us than "ssm". As important as an SL may be, it is not worth an act that would impoverish my family. That "boundary" might be fine for wealthy people, or people with grown/no children. But for those of us that have one and not the other, its not so easy a line to draw. then there's others who's religious convictions prevent them from putting this on the table/enforcing that boundary/threatening divorce.
I just have a hard time accepting that folks in these groups are doomed to live in misery, having no other recourse.
Cac4 And I'd immediately ask you... "so how's that working out for you?" it works out fine, so long as I ONLY speak to other engineers...who wouldn't assume that the vessel to which I previously referred contained water, and then go on to pollute that data through their own personal bias, based on their present requirements for a substance that I never mentioned. That sounds similar to how my conversations with BB progress. Topic 1# gets other things mixed in and before long, topic #1-the water, doesn’t look like water any more.
spare me the BS; it only clouds the issue. just give me the numbers. Covering up unpleasantness with flowery words is just another form of deception. and its just one of my "pet peaves"..."pc talk", speaking in euphamisms, changing words that define a negative condition, in an effort to make that condition something other than it is...its a waste of human energy.
Its like dealing with a car salesman. "we prefer "more affordeable" to "cheap""... "oh-cut-the-bs-and-just-tell-me-how-much-the-f@king-thing-costs" to ME, "IWNLIASM" is car-salesman-speak for "have really hot sex with me or I'm going to dump your sorry azz".
Cac, corri has her version of how to say things that works for her. I like the idea of having that skill but sometimes it looks like dancing around the issue and splitting hairs, than dealing with the elephant in the room.
Maybe it isn’t the right way to think or the right way to say "IWNLIASM" or I'm going to dump your sorry azz". but most alternatives would mean about the same thing to me.
I just have a hard time accepting that folks in these (children, religion, ethics, finances) groups are doomed to live in misery, having no other recourse.
Put me in the ethics and what D will do to BB. I guess my biggest trap is self-imposed. So much for the advantages of being a person that cares.
ok, seriously...I don't mean to imply that hosiery is as important to a R as a healthy SL, but my point is that there are far worse things that could happen to many (if not most) of us than "ssm". As important as an SL may be, it is not worth an act that would impoverish my family. That "boundary" might be fine for wealthy people, or people with grown/no children. But for those of us that have one and not the other, its not so easy a line to draw. then there's others who's religious convictions prevent them from putting this on the table/enforcing that boundary/threatening divorce.
I just have a hard time accepting that folks in these groups are doomed to live in misery, having no other recourse.
There are other alternatives. One involves being willing to accept the end of your marriage, though, without desiring or even being willing to instigate the end of your marriage. That attitude is most consistent with reality in any marriage, since the other person could choose to end it without your consent.
Once you're no longer afraid of your marriage ending, even if you don't desire it, you gain a lot more freedom to act within the marriage. For instance, you can now educate yourself and try different approaches to entice your spouse into bed with you, rather than waiting sullenly for your spouse to signal that you're now allowed to approach. If the spouse gets angry, you back off for a couple of days and try again, and keep it up until your spouse either shows you what approach best sparks desire, or gets sick of your approaches and divorces you. Either outcome is acceptable, although one is obviously preferable to the other. You know you aren't doing anything wrong or anything that a reasonable person would find objectionable, and if your spouse is unreasonable enough to divorce you because you keep wanting sex, it's unfortunate but not the end of the world and not something you can really do anything about.
Oh yeah, and don't forget to boost your confidence by getting a life, aiming at and reaching goals, and so forth, which makes you more attractive and boosts your chances at getting laid. Elminating any unattractive mindsets or habits helps too.
You can also have more intimate conversations, knowing that if you reveal something that your spouse finds unacceptable and the spouse decides to leave, you'll be okay, but if that doesn't happen, the two of you will draw much closer and have a more satisfying marriage, and most likely a more satisfying sex life.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
