Thanks CM - yes it is very easy to get lost in the shuffle. But I made a promise to myself a long, long time ago never to let it go that far. I made that mistake in the first M and I am not about to do it again. It just takes way too much out of you.
Being in a new place doesn't help either. It is so hard to meet new people and do things. But, with this new job I have found it should be a lot easier. Unfortunately the one I had before consisted of students as my only source of social contact - not good! As much as they were a great bunch, I just needed to be able to remain the instructor and not their "friend". In my new position, I am just one of the crowd so it should be great.
Like I said, I have already been invited to a barbeque and with or without H, I am going
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
Just an update to let you all know what has been happening in my life (and I am sure you are all dying to know - lol)
We had another session with the ST today - and it was fantastic, as usual. This guy is truly amazing.
ST had spent the vast portion of the session talking directly to H and trying to get him to express his feelings about why he had the A and what drove him to it when he turned to me because he could see I was hurting (he is VERY observant) and he asked me how I was feeling. I told him I was sad and very hurt. He asked if I was angry about the A, I said "no" that I had got over the anger and dealt with it, I knew it wasn't about me but it still hurt very deeply. He asked why it hurt so much. I told him that after the A, H had told me he didn't think it would bother me because I was so strong and I could handle it. That's when I started to cry and said how wrong he was and how very deeply it hurt and how I couldn't believe he would think that way.
He then wanted us to do some mirroring.
He told me to tell H how I felt. I told him I wasn't as strong as he thought I was and that it hurt me very deeply that he would turn to someone else because he thought they needed help, when here I was at home, needing him just as much, if not more, and yet he turned his back on me to comfort someone else, someone that didn't even care about him. H said he was sorry he had hurt me so badly but that I always portrayed being so strong.
ST jumped in and said "do you hear what she is saying to you, can't you see her pain? Why are you distancing yourself from her pain" He asked me if I could feel it and I said I could, that H was always that way. When things got too close, too emotional, he would always distance himself.
ST wasn't about to let H get off that easy. He told him to tell me how he was feeling. He began by saying he was sorry he hurt me but then glossed over it again. ST stopped him and told him to be more sincere. He said it was "hard" but ST told him he had to try. He started to tear-up and told me how very sorry he was to have done what he did, that he felt guilty and ashamed - and then he stopped. I repeated back to him what he had said and then I said "is there anymore" and he said "yes, there's a lot more". ST asked what it was and he said "he couldn't say it because it hurt too much"
This was right around the time we were scheduled to end our session but I could see that ST wasn't about to end it there because (1) he was onto something and (2) we won't be seeing him for another 3 weeks because he's going on holidays next weekend for a couple of weeks (well deserved I might say).
ST started to zero in and asked H if he would be willing to deal with this "head-on" and H agreed. ST said he would give it a go but thought he might have to refer him to another psychologist that was more experienced in the type of therapy he thinks H needs.
He is pretty sure H is also dealing with SADD, on top of everything else, because of his episodes of deeper depression in the spring and fall. But aside from that he wants to get to the core of his psyche as he is convinced this is what needs to be healed. He says H has not dealt with the grief of his detachment from his primary caregiver (a combination of his biological and adoptive mothers) - it is very complicated and he took another 45 minutes (of his own time that he didn't charge us for) to explain what needed to be done and once H dealt with that, protection strategies would have to be put into place so this wouldn't happen again. ST seemed very anxious to get to the root of the problem and was convinced this was the key.
He said it would take total cooperation on H's part to do this because he (or this other therapist) was going to get right in H's face. He said H was supressing a lot of fear, hurt, anger and frustration and until he let that out, his psyche would not begin to heal and what we are dealing with now would continue to fester and rear its ugly head over and over.
What they basically do is get H pissed off at them so he will express his anger, and they will continue to provoke him until it comes out. He did a little bit of it today and it was truly amazing. I saw a part of H I knew existed but he would never show - a very vulnerable, hurt little boy.
This is going to be a remarkable journey and we have only just begun.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
HW, just checking the SSM forum before going to bed.
Your ST sessions are informative reading. To see the process as it unfolds, is very educational and enlightening.
H had told me he didn't think it would bother me because I was so strong and I could handle it. That is something I would not have expected a guy to say.
He asked if I was angry about the A, I said "no" that I had got over the anger and dealt with it, Does one really get over it? I can imagine getting past most of the anger so you function at a higher level.
I am learning about how people function in and through difficult situations. Each person’s situation is a little different as are the people.
I told him I wasn't as strong as he thought I was and that it hurt me very deeply that he would turn to someone else because he thought they needed help, when here I was at home, needing him just as much, if not more, and yet he turned his back on me to comfort someone else, I have to see if am guilt of a little of that behavior when I work on customers printers. I think BB sees other people come before her. But that is the way I earn a paycheck.
I said "is there anymore" and he said "yes, there's a lot more". ST asked what it was and he said "he couldn't say it because it hurt too much" Oh, the many, many layers of emotions and fears people have with in them. Peeling the onion comes to mind.
He is pretty sure H is also dealing with SADD, on top of everything else.. I can relate to the SADD, I don't like the short days in the wintertime. I think mild form's of SADD is more common than many people realize.
ST seemed very anxious to get to the root of the problem and was convinced this was the key. Good to hear that HW. I am almost envious and whish one of the MC BB and I saw, was as good as your ST.
This is going to be a remarkable journey Yes it is, even on this side of the computer screen.
I see two clients the ST is working with. I see you did say I told him I wasn't as strong as he thought I was and that it hurt me very deeply that he would turn to someone else
I see progress concerning your H. I don’t want to pry too much but how do the ST sessions help you personally, separately form anything your H does or doesn’t do or say?
I think BB sees other people come before her. But that is the way I earn a paycheck.
I see this as a common problem with couples but the difference is you do it as a job, to earn money (we kinda need that) he was doing it to satisfy his own needs and leaving me behind, not to mention the THOUSANDS of dollars he spent, not earned.
What am I getting out of this? A lot !! Really I am. The ST is also addressing a lot of my issues, because it is never one-sided. There might be a reason why H subconsciously picks the women he does, but I have also chosen him for reasons of my own. That alone has taken me through a lot of emotion, having to go back to my own childhood fears, hurts etc. and work my way through them also. No one is immune to the child inside that is reaching out to be healed and comforted.
He is also helping me through the emotions I am feeling about having to put myself out there sexually and giving me tips as to how to go about it. I know I am going to have a whole heck of a lot of very unpleasant visions running through my head when we get to that point and it scares the beejeepers out of me but I also know each time I will have to take it one step further work my way through it.
Quote:
This is going to be a remarkable journey Yes it is, even on this side of the computer screen.
I am glad I can be entertaining to you - lol
Another thing we went over today was talking about trust. ST asked H what he thought it would take to prove to me he could be trusted. H said "time, a lot of it, maybe 5 or 10 years" - so he is well aware that he is in this for the longhaul
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
There might be a reason why H subconsciously picks the women he does, but I have also chosen him for reasons of my own.
Very insightful Heywyre. I think we all do this. Interesting that your H said he thought you were strong enough to handle it. Of course, that could just be his rationalization to alleviate some anxiety/guilt about the whole thing. But it is what it is. "Delving into the psyche" is a very difficult process, one that many people are really not up for. They may "jump through the hoops" and seemingly make progress in C but then they are right back to their usual dysfunction. It takes a VERY motivated person to truly face the reasons behind their actions. And then, not just gain insight, but actually use that insight to change their behaviors. It's one thing to understand why you act the way you do, it's another thing to actually break the pattern of behaviors. I'm sure your ST will be dealing with the whole process (or referring you as he stated). That will be key. Hope things continue to improve. LFL
GEL - Yes, he is a real gem and we are truly blessed to have found him - fate?
LFL - I know it will be a very long journey for the both of us but H seems determined to not only seek out the cause but, more importantly, to know how to not go back there. THAT is something he wants to be able to master and, I will give him credit for one thing, when he puts his mind to something there is no stopping him. If he says he will do it, he will. The only thing holding him back right now is the financial end of things. We have already spent a vast amount of money on counseling and I think he feels guilty if we spend any more. I told him there is nothing more important than your health - both physical AND mental. He then said "yes, but there are limits and I will decide when I feel enough is enough". Normally, in the past I think I would have let that slide but yesterday I didn't and answered him with "yes, that might be true but this doesn't involve only you, this is about US and I should have a say in that decision also. If it means we don't pay off the house as quickly as we would like, so be it. If it means we have to wait for the Jeep to have another part, so be it. If it means not buying something we "want", so be it. This is something that involves the rest of our lives and is important." H agreed whole-heartedly and the subject was dropped.
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
Re finances: ask your H if it were one of the children or grandchildren (presuming you have children/gc) who needed the help, would he be willing to spend the money?
Don't know if I would go there LP - H's relationship with his children is strained at the best of times (a whole other thread for sure)
But I could use me as an example, he would spend his life savings for me, I know that. A perfect example was when I was going to try going to the chiropractor for my headaches and I knew it was going to cost at least $3,000 for the year. He said "you have to try, even if it doesn't work"
Well, this is the same - he has to try
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
Every situation I read here plays out differently. I pickup or relate to each poster's case in a different way. I see correlations to my R with BB and other people I come in contact with. I see the poster’s family reacting in different ways. So many of us are common people with common problems but as a whole, there are so many ways things play out.
IRL I don't ask too many questions about why something happened or what the person was feeling. :)Yes, I am a cold-hearted man in the flesh :(, not really. I just don't want to pry into some of the things my friends do or think. Guess I call my reserved interactions social boundaries and not meddling. If a friend wants to talk, I can listen and can comment on some of their ideas that seem unfounded.
The ST is also addressing a lot of my issues, because it is never one-sided That is usually so true. That is one reason I continue to work with BB.
I have also chosen him for reasons of my own. That alone has taken me through a lot of emotion, having to go back to my own childhood fears, hurts etc. and work my way through them also. No one is immune to the child inside that is reaching out to be healed and comforted. Choosing someone because of conscious or unconscious reasons, that is a reoccurring theme in many deeper psychological talks/posts. Lil and others said something similar.
This childhood fears vs. adult choices is a whole therapy branch. I read some of Harvel Hendrix's work about 12 years ago. His method is called Imago Therapy. BB and I had 1 session of Imago therapy. It was healing at the time.
I think childhood issues and related therapy needs to continue past that stage and move to the what I call "so your childhood was traumatic, what is the now adult within you doing to make the now person happier. Some of the self-help "Adult Children of Alcoholics" (similar to AA/ALANON) helped me when I was overloaded with stress because of my back problems, not working, going to college, 2 teenagers doing some acting-out and BB going from a SAHM to back to school, back to work mode.
I am going to have a whole heck of a lot of very unpleasant visions running through my head when we get to that point and it scares the beejeepers out of me Well, here is where I don't have any advice and in fact looking at it from your POV or a woman's POV, it appears like a whole new situation to me. Like I said before this forum thing, reading and interacting with people, exposes a number of situations where one has to just learn something new.
ST asked H what he thought it would take to prove to me he could be trusted. H said "time, a lot of it, maybe 5 or 10 years I just am picturing a man, age 67~72 finally getting his W to trust him? Well if he said that and it is more than lip-service or more than just saying the right things to appear proper, then he knows he has a lot of work and time to prove himself. It certainly was a better reply than saying the As were no big deal and get over them already like some people do. The other forum I read has a lot of couples that split up when one spouse had an A. Lots of those couples are separated for years and many have D. Most of the posters are LBS. Many of the WAS put most of the blame on the LBS. Mr. HW is saying and doing the right things, so that is encouraging and you have a very good ST.
I see this as a common problem with couples but the difference is you do it as a job, to earn money (we kinda need that) he was doing it to satisfy his own needs and leaving me behind, not to mention the THOUSANDS of dollars he spent, not earned. I agree with that statement. However BB didn’t at one time to an extreme, and to a lesser degree several other times. She couldn’t see the extra work I did as something I did for all of us. She saw the extra work as me doing something for me.
She still has resentments and with the extra income that was needed to support a mortgage that was 50% higher than our old one for new, bigger house that needed landscaping, more furniture, things, and kids in school and their activities. We were both spending too much like people do today. About 6 paychecks from financial disaster. I kept everything paid off and we had money for fun, but that whole situation is part of our current marital distancing today.
MY situation is a 100% opposite of your H. He spent thousands of $$$ on his A’s and I earned $3K to $5K more yearly (1974 to 1987) so the whole family could have more. I didn’t spend the extra money on myself except for some tools so I could do more work. No cars, no bars, no $$ hobbies for me to speak of, yet I didn’t spend enough time with my family and BB. I mostly post this for the readers that work too many hours to show what could happen.
What am I getting out of this? A lot !! Really I am……..He is also helping me through the emotions I am feeling about having to put myself out there sexually and giving me tips as to how to go about it. I hope the ST is helping you with any abandonment/neglectful feelings, type issues you might have had while Mr. HW was not spending enough time with you, or was he able to live a dual life and have a happy W and an A at the same time?
He said "you have to try, even if it doesn't work That was encouraging.
Lil Your therapist sounds fantastic. I wish more were like him Lil.
Lou
Hay, the fire station is calling me. Guess I better go see what they want!
