UGH! You are doing so well in a situation that's pretty tough. Shrugging off all that negativity is pretty hard (I've got a smaller version of that here) but keep going!
You are doing a good job and I know that you've got your head pretty firmly on your shoulders now. Keep being steadfast and consequent. She's acting like a teenager and you're the safe haven at the moment.
I hope you and the kids have a wonderful 4th and that your spouse ( I don't call someone who doesn't want to be a wife "wife") shows some consideration today.
I have to say that I agree everything that HS has just said, because I've been bothered by all of the BS you've had to put up with since I've been on this board. You have done your absolute BEST to save this M, and she is still being as selfish as anyone I've seen (and like HS, acting like a teenage). She seems to be having an MLC and can't grasp what she really needs in her life.
I hate to be so negative, but I also hate to see you put up with the pushes and pulls from this woman. She is being insenstive to everyone's needs but her own (and I don't even think she knows what her needs/wants are!).
Okay, just thought about something and I'm sure I don't know what the hell I'm talking about here, but thought I'd throw it out here: Has she gone through menopause and is she taking hormone pills? I only say this because I remember back in high school when my mom went through this and she was very emotionally unbalanced. Just a thought...
Take care brotha -- hope you with find a tunnel with some cheese that continues to replenish!
Been just doing my best to no pursue her, not react to her, not have any expectations of her, just allowing her to spend sometime at home with the kids and with no pressure.
Wed I went to a 4th of July family picnic for church, only S13 wanted to come, spent an hour there and talked to a couple people I knew, looked like a great time and I'm looking forward to take the whole family to it next year and making a day of BBQin' socializing and enjoying the great people at church. Came home and BBQed for the kids, watched all the fireworks in the valley from the roof of the house, then lit off fireworks out front in the court.
Thursday I took my wife and kids golfing, then went to work (stopped and kissed my wife on the forehead on my way out the door), came home and read for a bit, then everyone went to the movies (License to Wed). Movie was funny, kind of hard to enjoy some of it when my wife who doesn't want to be married sitting next to me. There were certainly some educational pieces about marriage in the movie, maybe something will sink into her hard head one of these days.
Except for my kissing my wife on the forehead we've had zero physical contact this visit. No hugs, no hand holding, no R talk, just lots of small talk, talk about the kids and that is about it. She certainly has been complaining about meaningless stuff, and twice I've called her on it and reacted strongly instead of letting it roll off my back. Both times she has been the one to change her attitude so maybe I need to figure out how to continue to stick up for myself without getting carried away in the process.
One thing I've been thinking the last two days is that a few different "experts" on marriage have mentioned that when a wife is nagging her husband it is better than when she quits because the nagging is her trying to "fix" the relationship whereas when they stop nagging it is because they've given up. My wife has been to that "stop nagging" place and she has given up, maybe her showing up and complaining about stuff is because she is trying to figure out how to "fix" the relationship in her own dysfuntional way. Not sure, but the comments about her acting like a teenager certainly are true.
Feels like she is walking away at the moment, no longer running, no longer stopping to see what I'm doing, not coming towards me, but just slowly walking away. There is so much we could do to reconnect and rebuild our marriage, but she isn't willing or isn't able or isn't something that is stopping her. It is what it is, I'm doing fairly well overall, if I can keep the status quo while she has time to possibly heal and regain her mind then we have every opportunity to build a new marriage that is greater than either of us can imagine. I'm still praying daily, leaning on God and trying to prepare myself so I'm ready for her return, even if she refuses I know I've learned and grown in leaps and bounds.
Thanks HS, I hope that is related to her acting like she is. I know it would sure be a whole lot less effort for her to not care about anything and just do her own thing. For some reason I get some feelings like she is thinking about how things "might work" if she comes back and that generates her complaints about me. It also might be her trying to constantly reassure herself about how "it can't work" because I'm doing so many things wrong in her eyes. I get the "it has been like this for XXX years" and "you'll never change" and "you are who you are" and "we're not compatible" and all the rest of the self-justification spew, most of which seems to be for one or both of two reasons: 1) assure herself that she has no choice but to leave me since I'm the source of her unhappiness and it will always be that way, 2) trying to drive me away from her and convince me that I don't want to be married to her.
Anyway, all that stuff is speculation and out of my control, I'm just working on my reactions (lack there of and/or taking a firm stance to deflect it). The hardest part right now is just feeling like I'm doing nothing to better my marriage and anything that is left between us is just atrophing and "withering on the vine" do to complete lack of effort or attention or "watering" on my part, Lord knows my wife isn't going to do any of those anymore. A month ago when she was last here, when she went from "I'm going home and filing for divorce" too "I'm going to start my 'year of patience' and I want you to leave me alone" and I literally have "LEFT HER ALONE" even 98% of the time during this 5 day visit, she kind of picked up the "ball" and was calling me, contacting me, asking me what I was doing, but she is doing less and less and less of that, which means little to no contact between us on many days now. For the last 6 months since the bomb we'd talked almost every single day, so it certainly appears like we're drifting further and further apart, but I can't figure out her head, so who knows, I don't even think she does...
Well my wife couldn't leave well enought alone, here we were on the last day of her 5 day visit, longest time we've gone with her here and not had any kind of emotional blowout. I did everything I could to let her have a nice time here with the kids, no pressure, no R talk, no nothing.
She calls me at work (while I'm on the toilet, she seems to have ESP for when I unzip my pants...) and starts with "how much money do we owe on the house" and I tell her, then "what monthly payments do we have besides the 2 cars" and I start to tell her "utilities, insurance, ..." and she interrupts me with "no those are just normal expenses, any other debts, do you have any other loans, is there a 2nd on the house, etc." and I tell her, ya there is the 2nd on the house from when we bought it, but it is paid off, I do have a business loan for work that is $30,000. She gets irritated, "why do you have a loan for $30k for work, you don't have to do that, why did you do that..." I stepped up a bit and let her know that she doesn't know what she is talking about, she has no idea what I didn't have to do or anything else about starting the business. She tells me that she doesn't want to get stuck with my debt and I tell her I'm not asking her to, she doesn't have to worry about it, I don't expect her to pay it. We talked a bit more, after I stuck up for myself when she tried to lay into me about the business loan she kind of calmed down and by the end of the conversation it seemed to end on a decent note.
Then on my way to my IC appt, she calls me again, tells me that she just talked to her brother and he told her that he was closing the office I work in. I told her that he had just mentioned yesterday for the first time about not renewing the lease and going month to month, that he is considering moving some of the people in the office to his office and closing this one to save money, but nothing had been decided and he changes his mind constantly so who knows what will happen. She wants to know if I told her brother about her Bahai "Year of Patience" and why was I talking to him about us. I told her that he'd asked if she was divorcing me or not and since I work for him he has an interest in if I'm moving, plus he worries about her and what is going on. I told her that I'd just answered the questions he'd asked, I didn't do telling him any of the intimate details of our lives and that she has no problem talking to her friends and sister about us so what is the difference? Now she wants to sell the house again, it is "too much work for me and I can rent a place". I told her that I dind't want to sell the house, it was better to get thru sorting our marriage out first, adding the stress of selling the house would just make it worse, she said it would be less stressful. Same old crap all over again, she is moving on, she needs someone else, can't even remember what all she said, but I finally said, "I have to go" and she wanted to know why, I told her "I've been standing outside my therapist's office for 30 mins now and I'm missing my appointment and I also have a call coming in from work and I need to find out why they're calling me." She said "ok, bye" in an upbeat voice.
I called work back, then went in for the last 15 mins of my IC appt. Talked about how the week had gone and then the 2 conversations I'd just had with my wife and by then the session was over. IC said we could continue on Tuesday at my next appt.
I considered just going to hang out at the sports bar and letting S15 take my wife to the airport and just not dealing with her, but decided that was a weak thing to do and something I'd do in the past, conflict avoidance. So I went straight home, sat in the truck for a few mins listening to the rest of a song and praying for some strength, guidance and wisdom. Got out of the truck as my wife was coming out to meet me. She said that she was taking S13 and S15 to get some food, did I want to go, I said no, just take them. Then she wanted to know if I'd called her brother about him closing the office. I said no, and explained to her what I knew about her brother's financial state and what he was considering. She said something about how she has never been able to feel any "consistency" from me about work. She was very tired and that I didn't know how tired she was and she can't take anything or she'll just kill herself. I told her that I've done everything I can to not put any pressure on her, to give her some time and space to heal. She said that she can't just leave everything in limbo, it isn't fair to me, I need to be able to get on with my life. I told her that was up to me, I'm not telling her that she has to make a decision today, that I need to get on with my life, she said it was her that needed to get on with her life. I went into the house to change into my work around the house clothes. She came in a few mins later, said the kids want me to go with them, then she started in with "why can't I see that our marriage is over" and "the sex is gone and with out sex you don't have a marriage" which is strange coming from her since all she ever tells me is that "I think sex is the answer to everything, why do I think sex is so important" and here she is trying to tell me the exact thing she usually complains to me about. She tells me that she hasn't wanted to have sex with me in years and if I couldn't see that then I was stupid. I told her to go take the kids, I don't want to go, she asked "is it because you don't want to be with me" and I told her that "I don't want to be upset" as I tried to hold myself together and keep the tears from flowing.
She left with the kids, I went into the shop to work on my Camaro and listen to a CD that arrived today from Rejoice Minitries called "Restoration of Your Marriage - Part 2" while sweat poured off me since it is 106 degree outside and the shop was at least that hot. It was a good message on the CD and I was able to gather some strength back and after getting a bit done on the car, I headed in to the house, figured hiding in the shop wasn't the best thing to do, more of my old conflict avoidance behavior. So I went into the house and sat reading a magazine and watching TV. My wife came in and sat down, she'd come back from feeding the kids while I was in the shop and now she'd been packing her stuff up. She told me that she would pay for a housekeeper to clean the house and the boys would pull weeds outside. She had a much better attitude and some concern and caring in her voice instead of the snotty way she'd been acting all week. I told her that I could take care of the house and she said that I was busy and it would be better to get a housekeeper, the place is dusty and it will be easier on me. Now this was a big change from her wanting to sell the house a couple hours earlier. She started talking about some other stuff and I couldn't look at her, between the tight shirt she was wearing and how I was feeling, I just wanted to look anywhere but in her direction. She got up to go pack and asked what time her flight was and when she needed to leave. I laid down on the couch and watched a bit of TV and closed my eyes to rest. A bit later my wife came in and wanted to know if I was sick and should she have S15 take her to the airport and I told her no, I'd take her.
I went out to the truck and started it and got the A/C going, waited for her to haul her suitcase out and load it up herself in the truck. On the drive to the airport she started with more R talk, how I couldn't give her what she needed, she was at a cross road in her life, didn't want to hurt me, didn't hate me. We talked about 30 mins, sitting in front of the airport at the end, I told her that I believe that God can heal her heart and our marriage, if she has any faith in God doesn't see believe He can do that. She doesn't know, she is tired, emotional can't deal with anything, isn't the same person she was, she'd had a nervous breakdown and I wasn't able to deal with it and had my own, neither of us was there for the other. Why wasn't I so committed to our marriage years ago when she needed me to help her get things do and get out of bed and help her. I told her that I can't do anything about that, I'm sorry, but I can't make up for it either, but I've already addressed that and I get my ass out of bed and I get everything done. She knows I've changed and I'm trying to still change, but it is too late, I broke her heart and now she is sorry that she is breaking mine. She needs to go out and find something else. I told her that I'm not the problem, her job, her friends aren't the solution, the problem is inside her, changing her husband isn't going to fix the problem. She talked about how she is severely depressed and has been for years, but she uses work to combat it and she has to work, also she said I was depressed too and that I just bring her down more, she needs someone that is depressed to "bring her up" and that isn't me. I told her that is true, I have been depressed and I'm not nearly as depressed as I was and I'm working on it, she said that is good, I need that for myself. I told her that I might have contributed to her problems, the same with D23, but we weren't the problems. I told her that I didn't want to go back to our old marriage anymore than she did, I want to build a new one brick by brick using everything we've learned about ourselves and each other. She said she wasn't going to anymore counseling, I could go if I want, but she know she is the only one that can fix what is wrong inside, I told her that is true, therapists can give you a magic solution, but they can help you fix yourself. I also said that she needs to get rid of the pain and resentment from the past, but she doesn't need to get rid of me to do that, she said maybe she does...
I finally had heard enough, had said my peace, hopefully I put some ideas in her head that maybe God can help her heal, but I'd remained fairly steady without too much emotion in my voice or tears, she was calm and open and honest and it was a good talk. I said "ok, well have a good flight" and she said she would, then she said that she'd been feeling for a year now that she doesn't want to be married, she doesn't want to give me any "false hope", she'd give it until the end of the year." She got out, struggled a bit to get her suitcase out, said "ok, bye" and I said "bye" and after she took a couple steps I left.
I feel at peace with myself about what I said and how I handled myself, I didn't say anything I regret. I don't know where she is headed in her head, but I'm doing good. Sent her a txt msg on the way home that said "Thanks 4 talking. I'm here 4 you however u need. I pray that u can heal enough 2 open your heart again & that u will allow me the chance 2 luv u before u go elsewhere" and she replied with "Thanks." Later she sent me "I am back" when she landed and I told her "K. Have a safe drive home. Thanks 4 all your help while u where here."
I keep thinking of things I forgot, but then forgot them before I could add them in... Oh well, too long a post already.
She is the one that decided to change her work schedule so she could come her for 5 days at a time, twice a month. When she made that decision she was as happy as could be, "the weight of he world" was off her shoulders. She would come help with the house and the yard, the kids and she wanted me to schedule MC for the two of us. I haven't pushed her to visit at all in months and right now I don't know when she'll be back, maybe the end of August for S15's birthday and/or the start of school.
It was like she was throwing her hand and feet all over trying to fight me off, even tho' I was just standing her observing her from a distance and not threatening her, maybe she just likes to see her own finely tuned karate moves or something. She is really screwed up emotionally, mentally, she doesn't want my help, refuses it like I have the plague. Her loss at this point, she can party until she is 60 and maybe then she'll be ready to face her problems instead of just accepting "that is how she is" and doing nothing about them.
Thanks for the comments HS, they help tremendously, -JDK
Oh and HS, I think things might get stranger each time because she keeps trying to push my buttons and they don't all work anymore, so she has to try some new ones or make up a whole new playbook on the fly...
She probably thought she could "play mommy" and it relieved a little of her guilt. Let her lead this and do try to get her to counseling. Seems like you've tried and now it's up her. It does sound to the uninitiated as if she's going through midlife or a medical problem but, well, that's for her to find out.
Sheild your kids from the madness. If she's acting like this it may be best not to have her around for awhile. Don't let her guilt tripping bother you. She's just spewing and you need to find some teflon for your soul. You have found a faith so use that, it will help. Don't forget to apply the "soul coating" often so that you can let a lot of her issues just slide off. Remember, they're HER issues. Don't let them be pushed off on you.
You did very well on this visit, now kick back, work on your car and let your faith guide you. Have a nice, relaxing weekend!
OTB
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Buddy, this made me snort bacon into my apple juice this morning.
I also laughed when JDK mentioned W's "finely tuned karate moves," but your bacon snorting comment cracked me up too! Both of these statements were highly visual for me -- what pictures they painted!
Also, I still can't get this comment out of my head from you on another thread:
Quote:
My ex blames me for everything from neglecting our marriage (guilty) to global warming (sometimes I have gas).
You should consider doing some amateur stand up for GALing!
