I've been thinking about you this a.m. and my honest opinion, and I could get slammed too, is that, yes, H feels he has legitimate feelings, but bottom line is he needs to deal with them and move forward and it doesn't seem to me that he WANTS to do that. I hate to say it b/c I know I wouldn't want to hear it about my own sitch, but I agree that it almost seems as if he wants to push you to the point where you say enough is enough and that lets him "out" but you are the one that said the M was over, not him.
I still think it seems as if he is emotionally abusing you. Yes, that sounds extreme, but if you are honestly trying to work things out w/ him, supporting him and trying to be understanding and all you get are the harsh words, emails cussing you out, etc., I consider that abuse. I don't know how long I would allow that to continue.
I hate the thought of D when there are children involved, however, bottom line to me is that he needs to deal w/ his issues, move forward or move out. I honestly am sorry that I even have to have that opinion about you and your M!!
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
thank you so much for your care and thoughtful opinion. It means a lot to me. To be perfectly honest, I can't fathom being HAPPIER broken up. I just don't see it with us, but I am at a point where I feel like I don't know what to do anymore.
Well, I posted briefly earlier, but didn't really get into what happened and what was actually said last night. When he came home, my friend Chris had just called to make sure I didn't want to come over. Based on how hateful our phone calls had been, I started to reconsider. Let me make something clear. I am considered a very confrontational person and very direct by most everyone I meet. I do NOT avoid conversations with him or conflict. The opposite actually, to my detriment. One of his big complaints about me is that I won't let an argument end. As a result, yesterday, our kids were witness to us fighting in a big way. It was sad. When he first walked in the door, an outside observer would not have known anything was wrong. We didn't mention dinner, he said he was taking Mari to Home Depot with him to pick up a few things. (It's just down the road from us.) I didn't expect he would be gone long, but didn't really know. My friend called while he was gone and I thought it might be a decent way for everyone to spend the evening. When he came home and I mentioned it, I suggested he stay home with our son, who was sleeping and I just take our 4 yo. He scoffed and said, "I guess so." Clearly not an idea he liked. I said, "Why do you act like being home with just Sam is so horrible?" He said, "I don't - you put that on me! Maybe *I* wanted to go somewhere!" I said, "Where were you wanting to go, Joey?!" He said, w/o looking at me, "I don't know, maybe a BAR!" I was really bothered by his response though and said, "Never mind, I will happily take Sam with me." I went to get ready. Our daughter said, "Daddy, are you going?" He was laying face down on the bed and muttered, "No, honey, Daddy's not invited." I was just exasperated and angry at this point. I said, "Joey, that is not true! You have never shown any interest in hanging out with Chris and I. Quit dragging our children into this." His hatred and sarcasm was really getting to me. I tried talking to him and he was just LIVID. He said some of the things I numerated above and I TRIED to explain my side of things, calmly and rationally. I said that I was not trying to make things worse, and I was sorry if I had. I talked about what he could eat for dinner. He said in a snotty voice that he wasn't staying there. I was TRYING to be kind and repsectful, but we kept arguing as I was trying to get out the door and he was completely hateful.
I left. I ate a bunch of brie and salmon and drank a lot of wine. Had a terrific time and aside from a minute or two, I did not discuss Joey or our sitch. Kids had a great time and I came home and put them to bed.
Joey walked in around 11:30. He threw a restaurant to go box in the fridge and walked past me, in a cloud of smokiness. (He does not smoke, but this told me that he probably went to the pub down the street from us.) I said hello and he returned it in a somber tone. He went into the bathroom for a minute and when he came out, laid down on the bed, face down. I laid down next to him and in a calm, almost sweet voice, said that I was sorry if I had made things worse that day, it had not been my intention at all. I spoke for about another minute and ended with, "ok?" in a soft voice. Silence. I said, "I'm trying to be nice; I would appreciate a little reciprocation." He muttered that he didn't feel good and he didn't want to talk. I said, "I'm not trying to get you to talk, I spoke to you and said OK?" I can't remember, I think he muttered something or maybe he was silent. He went into the bathroom (to throw up I think) and I just kind of felt like I was banging my head against concrete. I washed my face, and think I heard him wretching in the bathroom. When he came out, I had a bottle of asprin on his side of the bed and water on the nightstand. He ignored both. I went to sleep next to him at about 12.
This morning, I woke about 8:45 to Mari crying in my face, saying, "Daddy left w/o saying goodbye!!" This is a regular thing. She is devastated if he leaves without saying goodbye. I tried to comfort her and started my morning.
He just called and I acted like nothing was wrong. Said, "Hi, how are you doing?" He said, "Tired." I said, "I love you." and in a sullen voice, he said, "I love you too."
THEN he said, "have you checked your email?" I said, no not yet. He said that Discovery Channel called and they're holding a Dirty Jobs Banquet and it's the day that we have tickets to go see Kathy Griffin and booked a hotel room, at the end of July. They were calling to make sure they could attend. I was immediately excited for him and plainly said, "Well, great, we can cancel the room and I'll just go with Chris or Missy." He sounded a bit relieved that that was my reaction and said that that was what he was thinking too.
Then he said I fwd'd you an email from that tattoo artist who wrote me again. He said he was very impressed with my art work and wants to sell it in his shop in Hollywood. He said that all the rock stars visit there and Alice Cooper was there just the other day. He said they would get big bucks for it, for sure. I said, "Great." He said, "If this really comes through, it would probably be a good idea to fly out there and meet some people. He's invited me to his place several times." His tone was upbeat and he was acting like NOTHING happened. ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
When we hung up, I said, "I love you" and this time he hesitated for a second and then said, "I love you too."
Btw, in response to "what is he doing to fix things?" When I told him yesterday that I needed to know that he was trying to forget about the past, he scoffed and said he was offended that I thought he wasn't.
I hung signs around our house, because I was trying to share with him some of what I was reading without "sitting him down".
On our family calendar... Our family deserves a peaceful home.
On our refrigerator... Give your family your BEST SELF!
In our bathroom... What can I do to make my spouse happy today?
On the back of our bedroom door... The best gift we can give to our children is parents who truly LOVE and RESPECT each other-and SHOW IT!
Above our bathroom mirror... No matter what- I am the one in control of my emotions, speech and actions.
The best place for a child is in a home with two parents who make their family the TOP PRIORITY and show love, respect, humility, and compassion.
I also hung a thing I printed off Dr. Phil.com about how to stop fighting in front of your kids. He simply said, "I saw that you hung some signs." I pulled down the "what can I do for my spouse today" when he was out of town, but the others are still up. They are good reminders, I think.
Good reminders, maybe. But also a little much. Try taking it down a notch, kwim? I can tell you are a very passionate person but it may be overwhelming to your H (who also is very passionate obviously). You both seem very similar but it is clashing in terms of maintaining some stability in your M. If he says he is bothered by you discussing the M with friends then why not cut that out? I know you said you rarely do that but I think you may be underestimating that a bit. You appear to be able to reach out to people very easily and use that to decrease some of your anxiety (as opposed to people who hold things in more when they are stressed). I'm not saying that is wrong in general, just that it may be too much now and is clearly causing some problem for the M. Maybe your H feels like you are relying too much on others and not enough on him for your emotional support? This is making him insecure perhaps. LFL
I cannot say that I am very up on your sich but I can tell you that acting like nothing is wrong after a blowout is common in many relationships. For some people it is due to embarrassment over the event, for some it is avoidance of the real problem or problems. There was some stupid behavior there, no question however, it does appear that your H has some issues with you hanging out with other friends. Given that, it surprises me that he so easily suggested that you take someone else to something you were going to do together. Is he usually so up and down about the topic?
Why can't you go to that banquet thing w/ him instead of you both doing separate things? It seems to me that he's happier when things are going well for him outside the M and other interests are popping up. I would be hesitant about him going to CA or whatever by himself. I'm afraid he may do something he might regret.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
I don't think he REALLY cared that I was going to my friend's. Usually, when things are on an even keel, it means he has a few precious hours to do computer/art stuff by himself or just veg. If you guys remember, I used to try regularly establishing Mommy Monday, Daddy Tuesday and Date Night Wednesday? Well, he threw such a fit and constantly complained that I'm not going to mention any of them ever again. Including date night...well read on and look where that got me.
First a tiny bit of background...I was not posting here and things seemed to be going well. He had bought tickets for us to go see a comedian I love for my birthday (which ironically, when I mentioned it to our therapist, bragging about how nice it was of Joey, she laughed and said she is going to the same event.) Anyhow, while I was out of town at mother-in-laws for a week so that Mari could attend little day camps, he sent me 6 red roses on my birthday. Very nice. I called him and told him I thought someone was courting me!! wink wink I told him it was very sweet and he didn't have to, he'd already bought the tickets, etc. (We are so broke...) Anyhow, last weekend came, Saturday night, he was reading to D in bed, and I left him little notes leading from her room to the bedroom, which said, "Come - find - me!" - with a little heart and winkie smiley face. I turned on the DVD that came with our Liberator pillows, which is the most sensual DVD I've ever seen that does not turn me off like porn usually does. (It's tasteful, yet sexy). I lit candles and got in the shower. Finally he came in and said, in a kind of grumpy tone, "Am I supposed to get in here or what? It's so hot in here, I'm about to pass out?" I said, with a bit of a tone, "No you're not *supposed* to get in here. (I didn't have a plan of how it HAD to go...) I know it's hot, that's why I opened the window. So he left and I probably rolled my eyes to myself. Nice reaction, but pressed on. I finished my shower, came out and he was watching COMEDY CENTRAL. ??? He said something about the notes were nice. I started brushing my teeth, (hate to say it, but sometimes his breath is raunchy and makes me not want him close to me, so I try to make mutual tooth brushing a no big deal thing, which he usually seems to resent. Sorry.) As I started brushing, and he was paying attention to the tv, I said, "Did you brush your teeth?" He said, oh, no. He sort of begrudgingly got up to do so, and I KNOW I SHOULD have shut up, but I tried to nicely say, "what did you do while I finished my shower?" Normally, we need lubricant to make things comfortable, he had not gotten that out of the drawer or anything. I said that I had HOPED that he would be excited by me putting on the dvd, the candles, etc., but he seemed very disinterested. He kind of defensively dismissed what I had to say and I think we went on to try and have sex, but our pride got in the way, and I think we ended up quitting. I actually cannot remember, but I think we never did it. ?
Next day, Sunday, we went out as a family and ate lunch, took some pics by the canal downtown, etc. Fun family day. At the very end, it had gotten really hot and while I was trying to be patient, he kept stopping with D and we were so close to the car, I was ready to go and nicely asked if we could quit stopping and just go. He acted like I said it very rudely and got a little huffy over it. I tried to explain myself which usually just makes him madder. FFwd to that night. I say I want to work in the yard, could he watch the kids? He didn't seem thrilled, but said ok. I ran to Home Depot and bought two crape myrtles and he asked if I was going to mow the lawn. (I try to do it because I don't mind and his allergies are affected sometimes when he does it.) I thought it was a little bold of him, but I said sure, and got started. Well, as I mowed, I started thinking too much about things and basically started stewing. The song that Pam sent to him in an email and he quoted back to her, which mentions "those three little words" and "won't you just lay her with me and let the world slip away" is on ALL THE TIME!! (It's called Chasing Cars by Snow Patrol.) I never posted about this, but when I was on my way to Wichita for my best friends bridal shower and bachelorette party, it came on the radio and I called him and let it play in the background. He got TOTALLY PISSED OFF AND DEFENSIVE. He is NEVER EVER EVER sweet, apologetic, understanding when I bring up in some way HIS indiscretions, but we can talk all gddam day about how I dumped him and screwed other people in 1992. GRRRRR! Ok, so he came out after I was done mowing and asked me some question and I answered curtly, w/o looking at him. He pressed, sensing something was wrong, and again, in this type of situation, he is NEVER thoughtful and sensitive and "is something wrong?" It's always more like, "What's wrong with you?" with major attitude, which only makes it worse. I simply said, "I'm not in very good mood." He asked why or about what and I said, "I've probably had too much time to think by myself, and I'm just not in a good mood." I hadn't intended on even talking to him, just wanted to go take a shower, but he was right in front of me, asking why I was pissed, so I told him. He was pissy, and I went in.
Ok, I totally suck at keeping things short and sweet, but that's the background of the weekend. So as of last night, he had been stewing for days and acting cold after his session Monday, which brought up details of the past. We had it out in a big way Wed. and he went out to a bar and I went to my friend's house for a family birthday party. Next day, he acted like nothing was wrong. (I find it weird, but I'll take it and yes, I know it's his way of saving face and moving past stuff. It's ok with me, and I played along.)
Well, as I mowed, I started thinking too much about things and basically started stewing. The song that Pam sent to him in an email and he quoted back to her, which mentions "those three little words" and "won't you just lay her with me and let the world slip away" is on ALL THE TIME!! (It's called Chasing Cars by Snow Patrol.) I never posted about this, but when I was on my way to Wichita for my best friends bridal shower and bachelorette party, it came on the radio and I called him and let it play in the background. He got TOTALLY PISSED OFF AND DEFENSIVE. He is NEVER EVER EVER sweet, apologetic, understanding when I bring up in some way HIS indiscretions, but we can talk all gddam day about how I dumped him and screwed other people in 1992. GRRRRR!
So you let that song play in the background...why again?...for what gain? Or was it just to stick it to him the way he has been sticking it to you. If that is the case, this is a good example of how you are acting just as bad as him. It's childish and certainly not going to improve your M. Both of you are in a vicious cycle that you NEED to figure out how to stop or it's going to be same thing as always. LFL
So last night, even though I didn't call it "my night" or mommy Monday or whatever, I planned on going out to the mall to use a gift certificate my best friend sent me so I could shop for my birthday for something to wear to Vegas. I told him nicely that I needed to go do that when I spoke to him on the phone late in the afternoon. EVERY time I ask him to "babysit" he ACTS like it's fine, but depending on his mood, he'll let little snide comments slip in, like "what, are you gonna be gone all night, when I mention something about bedtime or baths, etc. I made dinner, then was off. Right before I left, I sat down next to him on the couch and handed him a card. I told him he could read it after I left, but he silently read it then. I finished getting myself together. It read:
I hate it when we fight, because I know deep in my heart how much we care for one another. It's silly, when you think about it, that two people who love each other should have such a hard time getting back on the right track. I want so much for us to listen openly to each other and focus on what brought us together in the first place... to get past the hurt and tears to the hugs and kisses... beyond misunderstandings to forgiveness. I'm more than willing to try, and I hope you are, too...
because when things are right between us, life couldn't be better. And I can't wait till we're back enjoying each other again.
I signed it: I love you Joey and ALWAYS WILL. I just want us to be HAPPY. Love, your wife, R. xoxo
He said the card was nice, thank you, in kind of a somber tone, but it was fine, based on all that had happened.
Came home, all was fine, D was watching tv with him in bed. I got on the computer and he came in and said I could have laid in there with them. I said I didn't want to watch that kid's show. I just wanted to get a snack and check my mail. He acted like I was avoiding him, which I *guess* I was. He asked me to read to D and I did. Then went to the computer. I just didn't FEEL like reaching out to him. I know it would have been nice if I did, but I didn't. I wanted him to reach out to me. (Yes, this is typical, and yes, I recognized it at the time, but I couldn't force myself to feel or act differently.) He came in at one point and extended his hand, which I recognized as his way of inviting me to the bedroom. Sort of at the same time that I saw him walk up to me, but kind of before I saw his hand, I said look at this, and showed him some pics I had ordered online. He looked at them with me, then said, "Come here and help me with something." I followed him in the bedroom, where he had the lights out. He started kissing me and undressing me. I really wish I hadn't felt the way I did, but I was feeling VERY stiff and uncomfortable. I know, it was really sh!tty timing and I was trying to fight it, but not doing a very good job of it. He sensed it and asked what was wrong, and I used his line of, "I'm just not feeling very close right now." He took a step back and said, "Don't do this, don't reject me right now. I said I'm not rejecting you and reached out to him. We kissed a little and hugged and I said, "are you doing this to make me feel better or to make you feel better, you know the whole man/woman thing." He said, "why are you analyzing this?" I said because I know what you need to feel reconnected and I know what I need to feel reconnected. This is all physical, so it's nice and it's meeting your needs, but maybe first you could give just a little bit of verbal." I know I should have shut up and F@#$ed him, but this is my big thing. I need to feel connected and DIDN'T! If he would have just said some kind words first, but he launched right into kissing nipples and pulling down panties, which satisfies HIS preferred way of reconnecting. Well, I reassured him enough that we did begin to make love, all the verbal I got was, "I love you, Robin," which is better than nothing, but is about all he can ever muster. Well, ironically, he lasted a LONG time and quite frankly, I was only in the mood for a quickie at BEST. I admit that other than moving my hips, I was mostly just laying there after a while. He readded lube 4 different times and finally tried to put it on me that I never wanted to to begin with and he felt like he was raping his wife, and got off the bed in a huff. I remained calm and said I admitted early on that it was a little uncomfortable given everything that has gone on, but that didn't mean I didn't want to be close to you. He remained pissed. I tried to simply say, if you had come sooner, which is not your fault, it's probably the Zoloft's fault, this would have played out completely differently and I wouldn't be the one to blame. He said nothing and I walked out.
SOO...this morning, I acted like nothing was wrong, tried to help wake him up, watched the TOday Show with him, cheerfully brought in our son to our room, etc. When I asked him about what he might like to take for lunch, he said he would take the leftover restaurant food. I said ok, that I would set it out with his keys so he wouldn't forget it. I said, Do you want a yogurt to go with it? He said, "I don't care." I was getting sick of his attitude at this point, I did not feel like I deserved it. I said, You either do or you don't. It doesn't matter to me, I'm just trying to be nice! He said he didn't care and I walked off and probably rolled my eyes when I got around the corner. I set a yogurt by the to go box and set his keys on top.
He said that today is his consultation for his vasectomy. I spoke with him for a minute about that and tried to say something about last night, like I was sorry it had played out the way that it had, but I felt like if he had come sooner, again, not his fault, that it would have turned out differently and I wouldn't have been to blame. He said in a pissy tone, just so you know, "I'm very frustrated." I said, "You're what?" He acted like I was an idiot and said, "I'm getting very sexually frustrated!" I said, "why?" He said, "because it's been so long since we've done it." He totally threw me for a loop and I think I walked away trying to absorb what he was saying. A moment later, I turned to him and said, "well then I would think you would have come really quickly, not taken a long time." He said, "yeah, that just made it worse." I tried to get him to see my side that that was not my fault. (One of my biggest pet peeves is being blamed for something I do not feel I'm guilty of.) He snottily asked me where the printed out email from the tattoo artist was, I said I probably moved it so Mari could play on the computer and not mess it up. He saw it next to the computer and snatched it up and said, "I found it." I said, "Did you go to that Mail2Web account?" He looked at me for a minute out of the corner of his eyes, then said, "Yeah, I checked my work mail, why? Are you checking up on me again?" I said I looked in the history and saw that you had been there. You told me you used that when hotmail was not working and I didn't think it was down yesterday. He said he didn't like me checking up on him. I said, it was just a week or two ago that you sent me your new passwords, which I have not used. He said, yeah, just letting you know my passwords were different. I said, "Yeah, so I can check on you if I want, which I haven't. I said, you see, Joey, I have NEVER EVER IN ALL OUR YEARS together not trusted you or checked up on you. EVER! It hasn't even been 3 months and look how you get so defensive when I bring it up in the smallest way? Forgiveness requires repentance and at least some acknowledgement of being sorry, which you NEVER are. However, you want me to be in a constant state of submission and apology over my actions from YEARS AGO."
I thought about everything for a moment, then went to him, calmly knelt beside him at the computer and reminded him how I left little notes for him over the weekend (when he blames me for having "given up") and then how he got upset for a few days after his session because of all the emotions. I tried to explain that that is why it has been a "long time" since we've had sex, not because I'm rejecting him. When I mentioned the Monday session and his follow-up attitude, he snottily said, "yeah, and why was that?" I said, things have been better and I've tried to be humble and do what needs to be done to show you I love you and fix things between us, but then when something comes up, not at all based on my actions that causes you to become emotionally distant, I do not want to be blamed for that. He listened and said nothing at that point, which surprised me. When he left a few minutes later, he came to kiss son and I reached out for a kiss, he gave me one. I said I only brought that stuff up to clarify things because I feel so *accused.* He said nothing about it and left.
Sorry, Zu, gotta agree w/ LFL. One of you is going to have to break the cycle and move on. Yeah, it sucks if it has to be you, but things are just going to keep going like they are and you guys will end up in D court if you don't just hang up the "stuff" and try to press on and work things out.
I realized after H wanted a D that obviously was not what I wanted so I swallowed my pride and 'fessed up to my transgressions in the M and made good on what I had been not doing or doing or whatever to help lead us to where we were. Yeah, he cheated and lied, etc., etc. and it's going to take awhile for me to completely trust him again, but if I want my M to go forward, I need to take the reins & ride w/ it. Bottom line.
You guys keep going in circles and no one is 'giving in' and if someone (and I truly don't think it's going to be your H!!!!) doesn't take the initiative to try to make things better and get past all the sh*t, it's not going to work.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
wink wink I told him it was very sweet and he didn't have to, he'd already bought the tickets, etc. (We are so broke...) Anyhow, last weekend came, Saturday night, he was reading to D in bed, and I left him little notes leading from her room to the bedroom, which said, "Come - find - me!" - with a little heart and winkie smiley face. I turned on the DVD that came with our Liberator pillows, which is the most sensual DVD I've ever seen that does not turn me off like porn usually does. (It's tasteful, yet sexy). I lit candles and got in the shower. Finally he came in and said, in a kind of grumpy tone, "Am I supposed to get in here or what? It's so hot in here, I'm about to pass out?" I said, with a bit of a tone, "No you're not *supposed* to get in here. (I didn't have a plan of how it HAD to go...) I know it's hot, that's why I opened the window. So he left and I probably rolled my eyes to myself. Nice reaction, but pressed on. I finished my shower, came out and he was watching COMEDY CENTRAL. ??? He said something about the notes were nice. I started brushing my teeth, (hate to say it, but sometimes his breath is raunchy and makes me not want him close to me, so I try to make mutual tooth brushing a no big deal thing, which he usually seems to resent. Sorry.) As I started brushing, and he was paying attention to the tv, I said, "Did you brush your teeth?" He said, oh, no. He sort of begrudgingly got up to do so, and I KNOW I SHOULD have shut up, but I tried to nicely say, "what did you do while I finished my shower?" Normally, we need lubricant to make things comfortable, he had not gotten that out of the drawer or anything. I said that I had HOPED that he would be excited by me putting on the dvd, the candles, etc., but he seemed very disinterested. He kind of defensively dismissed what I had to say and I think we went on to try and have sex, but our pride got in the way, and I think we ended up quitting. I actually cannot remember, but I think we never did it. ?