Having some mixed success/failure, now what?

[Brandon Kirk]

Well, just fight for the little boy for all it's worth. If you want to give a little on the monetary things, I understand. However, I would fight for every bit of custody of him until he is grown. You need to be financially secure too if you are also going to be raising a boy.

[walkingcliche]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with the premise "Good, responsible parents do not consider Divorce an option. They feel that energy should be put into building a better marriage instead".

If the divorce has to happen, I will be absolutely merciless. I will have the kid, the money, the house if I want it, etcetera, etcetera.

Problem is, I just don't want a divorce.

Right now, I have to work very hard at not hating her. It would be very easy to do, knowing what I know. Therefore, I have been kind of forced to get very good at detachment (if I do say so myself). I have become an almost supernaturally good role model, and my son is begining to see some of the benefits. (So am I, but that is really an afterthought at this point.)

I wish I could go into more detail, and I don't want to be cryptic with y'all, but it's been kind of a tough day and I've got a movie to go see (by myself, but she don't have to know that). Suffice it to say that, divorce or reconciliation, I feel this period of my life will probably be a high watermark of personal pride.

Now, if I can just keep from blowing it...

P.S. Thanks for the Superman tip, Tyler. Those totally rock.

[tyler]

No problem walkingcliche, I used to run a gym and trained tons of people,literally. My best success story was a 330 pound mother of 4 that now walks around at 130 solid.

Don't give in to the hate, it's a form of pessimism we can't afford while DBing.

I'm speaking from personal experience. It's a dark corridor that is tough to pull out of.

Although I think you have the right perspective re; fighting for your rights as a father. Just don't want to see you turn into a bitter guy.

[walkingcliche]

Then don't look.

JK, I'm actually more upbeat now than I have ever been before. Some of it is forced, I admit, but you gotta start somewhere, right?

Since you brought up fighting, have you ever checked out George Thompson's "Verbal Judo"? You may find it useful in your profession, but I'm finding it absolutely critical to the DBing effort. Pretty cool book/program.

[Nomopo]

Does she have a lawyer? If not, then I wouldn't hire one and I sure as hell wouldn't push for or doing anything else to advance discussion re: her proposal if you don't want a divorce. I might not hire one yet even if she does have one. No filing right? Sit on the damn thing for crying out loud. You already told her you want a D. Let it go at that. Why would you push that issue any further? That's you trying to control her instead of focusing on what you want and on you and your kid.

Also, one thing on custody, when you say go for full custody do you mean more than 50-50? If so, is that what you really want? Is that in his best interest? It might be, don't get me wrong, if she is a bad parent or a drug addict or something like that. But otherwise your son will most likely be best served to have both parents in his life loving him.

Finally, get control of the emotions. The hate or bitterness or anger or resentment all cloud you from thinking clearly and aren't healthy for you or your kid in the long run. Forgiveness is for you, not her. Life is too short to be pissed off and bitter.

Good luck,
Nomopo

[Iamworththetime]

Does she have a lawyer? If not, then I wouldn't hire one and I sure as hell wouldn't push for or doing anything else to advance discussion re: her proposal if you don't want a divorce. I might not hire one yet even if she does have one. No filing right? Sit on the damn thing for crying out loud. You already told her you want a D. Let it go at that. Why would you push that issue any further? That's you trying to control her instead of focusing on what you want and on you and your kid.

Excellent advice, as afar as I know m W hasn't seen a lawyer, or filed and I DAMN sure am not going to force the issue by doing it myself.

[walkingcliche]

She has a lawyer, but not a terribly good one. Also, I don't think she has been completely forthcoming with him. She works in the legal field herself, and in many ways is a very sharp cookie, but even I can see through her strategy (Negotiate a separation, then file for a rubber stamp divorce).

I don't think she will file, though. Not without an existing agreement, anyway. In our state, that puts all matters of custody directly in the hands of the court, and she can't risk that with the case I can bring. Worst part is, she has not shown a lot of real interest in our son for a long time. Primarily, she is most likely concerned about being perceived as a good mother, hence her "public" desire for custody.

She is showing some signs of improvement (spending more time with him, making choices that benefit him even if it is not what she happens to want at that moment, etc...), but it's still at the level of baby steps. Keeping my fingers crossed.

As for myself, I've interviewed several lawyers, and found the one I will most likely hire, but I haven't given him his retainer yet. Hope I won't have to, but I can if it comes to that. Again, keeping my fingers crossed.

P.S. Just read Nomopo's profile. I thought that speech sounded pretty familiar. What do I owe you?

[Nomopo]

Just a beer if our paths ever cross. Of course you need to know your rights and hire a lawyer but IMO, not yet, and hopefully never. Can I suggest you check out this link Thread. The initial post is a damn good read. FWIW, my advice to you is the sooner you can get past your emotions and formulate (and I think write down) your specific DB plan (with your goals and with the M saving strategies that you are going to try), the better off you will be. Think long-term here (months, not weeks), and start monitoring results of your strategies. If they work, keep it up. If not, try something else. This is ALL ABOUT finding solutions. You need to be patient and manage your emotions to do that, but at its core that is what DB is about.

Good luck, keep posting,
Nomopo

[walkingcliche]

I'll probably be having Sprite, but feel free to run up the tab. That link was worth it.

Obviously, my sitch is a little different and, IMO, tougher. I still think I'm on the right track, though. For the past couple of weeks she has used every possible opportunity to remind me of the upcoming release of a movie that is a sequel to one of my favorites. I went and saw it tonight, didn't even bother to mention it when we talked.

She has never said it in so many words, but I think one of the biggest problems in our R has been that I rarely put any boundaries up around myself. I usually seemed to be the pack mule that carried all the weight of our being together. I have now completely dropped that load and, what do you know, she seems to be trying to pick it up.

She's doing a pretty lousy job, but I can tell she is trying. For instance, a couple weeks ago we had a very loose agreement that I may stop by to see my son for a short visit, but nothing definite. She called my cell while I was on the land line with my mom, so I just let the voicemail get it. The extent of the message was that there were T-storm warnings in the area (I was already aware), that she and my son were okay, and that I should be careful. That was it. No mention of the visit, no real 'reason' for the call, just the kindness of assuring me that they were okay (and maybe even a little concerned about me).

Not a full reconciliation, obviously, but if you knew our history you would know that this was HUGE. I was always the "Watch out for the weather/Traffic is bad in this area/They are searching for a fugitive near your office/etc.." guy.

Absolute commitment to a divorce, nothing nice to say about me or us, who knows how many different people in her life, and she still managed an unintentional 180. It was all I could do to tell her that I appreciated the call and just leave it at that. I wanted to schedule a ticker tape parade, buy her 300 roses, erect a statue in her honor, all that nonsense. Instead, I just said thanks.

Yeah, I know, all of this sucks. But, there some real gems to be mined if you know how to see them.

[Nomopo]

I'll probably be having Sprite, but feel free to run up the tab.

Works for me.

Obviously, my sitch is a little different and, IMO, tougher.

Why in the world do you say that. Other than substance abuse or other issues like that (did I miss something?), I think these sitches pretty much come to the same spot, and the DB advice is about the same. With all due respect, there are many people here who are woese off than you as far as saving the M. Start with all the ones who are divorced. I'm only saying this because you need to stay positive. And we all (at least at first) think our sitch is unique. Sadly, there's nothing that unique about what we are facing.

I still think I'm on the right track, though.

You're off to a good start. How's reading DR coming?

For the past couple of weeks she has used every possible opportunity to remind me of the upcoming release of a movie that is a sequel to one of my favorites.

That's a small positive.

I went and saw it tonight, didn't even bother to mention it when we talked.

Why didn't you mention it? What's your strategy here? She went out of her way to tell you about it. You had a chance to reciprocate and connect (following her lead so no pressure). Maybe there was a good reason, but explain. Are you going dark? Too ealry for that I think. Detaching? You can do that lovingly and when she told you about the sequel to your movie she was reaching out. Does retracting or not reciprocating bring you closer or further to your goals? What are your goals? I assumed to get closer to your W when she is ready and to create positive interactions with her so that is in her mind while she decides whether or not to walk away. (BTW, if you want, you can mention it casually the next time you two talk.)

She has never said it in so many words, but I think one of the biggest problems in our R has been that I rarely put any boundaries up around myself.

That might have been a problem, but I highly doubt she'll ever say that.

I have now completely dropped that load and, what do you know, she seems to be trying to pick it up.

Excellent. The Do Nothing strategy from Step 5. Keep monitoring results.

She's doing a pretty lousy job, but I can tell she is trying.

And that is what really matters.

For instance, a couple weeks ago we had a very loose agreement that I may stop by to see my son for a short visit, but nothing definite. She called my cell while I was on the land line with my mom, so I just let the voicemail get it. The extent of the message was that there were T-storm warnings in the area (I was already aware), that she and my son were okay, and that I should be careful. That was it. No mention of the visit, no real 'reason' for the call, just the kindness of assuring me that they were okay (and maybe even a little concerned about me).

Not a full reconciliation, obviously, but if you knew our history you would know that this was HUGE. I was always the "Watch out for the weather/Traffic is bad in this area/They are searching for a fugitive near your office/etc.." guy.

Absolute commitment to a divorce, nothing nice to say about me or us, who knows how many different people in her life, and she still managed an unintentional 180. It was all I could do to tell her that I appreciated the call and just leave it at that. I wanted to schedule a ticker tape parade, buy her 300 roses, erect a statue in her honor, all that nonsense. Instead, I just said thanks.

I don't know your history, but I still think it is HUGE. Great baby step. Keep up your plan, and good job not overreacting to it. You did a little cheerleading (thanked her/appreciated it) and that was all it needed.

Yeah, I know, all of this sucks. But, there some real gems to be mined if you know how to see them.

The sooner you lose the "this sucks" the better you'll be. It drains time and energy from your efforts. And mining the gems (or seeing the small positives) is extremely important to DBing. So you're a natural. How's your reading coming? Did I ask that yet?

Sorry. I can be long winded.