I am Crazy Eddie, and I am a (recovering) workaholic. That list fit me in every particular.
I thought I couldn't possibly be a workaholic, since I wasn't getting that much actual work done. Workaholics make scads of money and accomplish miracles, right?
Maybe not.
She worried about finances, as did I. The question I dreaded most was "why aren't you making enough money?" because the answer, as far as I could tell, was "because I'm a lazy good-for-nothing". So I stayed "busy" and resented every "interruption" she or the kids caused in my "work", and gave her the impression I was working as hard as I possibly could. Which I was, just not as hard as normal people could work even when they took time to play and be with their families. I did my best to give the impression (to myself as well as to her) that any shortcoming in my work was caused by her insistence that I pay attention to her and the kids and the household, so that she'd never suspect that I was the main source of the problem. And I always ended up promising everyone more than I could deliver, hoping that the prospect of breaking that promise would force me to deliver and show everyone (including myself) that I could deliver... that didn't usually work.
Looking at that list, it looks like most workaholics constantly think their work is falling short and try to make up for it by staying "busy" and putting in more hours so they can meet what turns out to be an impossible standard for them and to prove their manly endurance as well. I can definitely relate to that.
Originally Posted By: Corri
Any admiration and attraction I had for him, died. I was always rebelling against what he thought I SHOULD be. It felt very parental, very controlling, and very hurtful, for when we were dating, the person I was, the things that were unique about ME, were the very things that attracted him to me in the first place.
I've been in his shoes too, but I never came out and expressed anything about how she should be. I tried to push her to be "better", failed, and eventually gave up. I spent a lot of time wondering how I could be or stay or fall back in love with someone that didn't come close to my "ideal woman", wondering if she existed, wondering if I'd find her, wondering if I'd go a lifetime without ever finding her, and wallowing in unhappiness and doing my best to hide it. I'm not sure how much she knows about that even now, but she wasn't happy either for several good reasons.
Last edited by Crazy Eddie; 06/27/0706:41 PM.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
If the issue of sexual fulfillment has not been addressed, then essentially the mans needs have not bee addressed.
If the issue of closeness/respect/tiredness/etc. in the relationship is not addressed, then the woman's (in your case) needs have not been addressed. Do you really want your wife to "fake" desire and have sex even though you are not exhibiting attractive and desirable behaviors for her? Why not BECOME the man you want to be and see if that attracts her desire and attention?
I may be reading between the lines, but it seems that the mans issues in marriage always seem to be addressed LAST.
This is a recurrent theme in most of your posts. You are so worried that it is unfair for you to have to make the first move or first changes. I wonder if this is also an attitude with everything else in your life. If so, this is a big difference between us.
I will say Hi or wave to people FIRST, I will treat friends to dinner FIRST, I will talk to my seatmate on the plane FIRST, I will ask my boss for a raise FIRST (rather than assuming he will know I deserve more money), I will tell my boyfriend what I am thinking or want FIRST, if I make a mistake, then I say sorry FIRST, etc. The reason WHY I tend to make the first move is because I don't like sitting around waiting for others to figure out what will make me happy. Rather I will DO the things I need to do to make myself happy. I don't feel it's anyone else's JOB to make me happy. And I certainly don't want to sign up for the JOB of making someone else happy either. Yes I like to take care of people and do nice things but I am not capable of doing it 100% of the time.
My guess is you sit back and wait for others to make the first move EVEN THOUGH it affects you the most. You may expect others to know you DESERVE something or need something without knowing that they have lives of their own and may not be that in tune with your needs.
Just my interpretation of your posts...
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I am not a possession, filling these roles, because you hired me to do so. I am a person first, with my own wants and needs, and I've agreed to do these things WITH you, not FOR you. It's a subtle difference, but a critical difference
Thats a very good point very well put. I think this is central to much pain that goes on in relationships. A lack of seeing (and accepting) others as subjects or agents of their own choice and will.
In TALs case it sounds like her husband doesn't connect to her as a person but expects that she will play the part of sexual performer regardless of what she her self wants. It's sex fueled by the ideals of porn reducing sex to physically "getting off".
It isn't all your fault. I would seriously doubt that your xW knows what a boundary is, or feels like to actually set one with a parnter. No offense to her... it is a hard thing to learn. One of the reasons I let myself get brow-beaten into my xH's Book Of Should Be's is because **I** had no clue what a personal boundary was, nor how to set one and be consistant with it. So it wasn't all my xH's fault. I was responsible for not sticking up for me (as he was for himself)... in a constructive way... by setting my personal boundaries... instead... I got caught up in power struggles and rolling around in his chit. As he did with me. And we were both half responsible for our inability to get out of our own ways.
It isn't all your fault. I would seriously doubt that your xW knows what a boundary is, or feels like to actually set one with a parnter. No offense to her... it is a hard thing to learn. One of the reasons I let myself get brow-beaten into my xH's Book Of Should Be's is because **I** had no clue what a personal boundary was, nor how to set one and be consistant with it. So it wasn't all my xH's fault. I was half responsible for not sticking up for me... in a constructive way... by setting my personal boundaries... instead... I got caught up in power struggles and rolling around in his chit. As he did with me.
Corri
We're still married. She had more patience with me than I had any right to expect, and I'm doing my best to see that her patience pays off.
I don't know what would have happened if she had put down better boundaries. I might have run, or more to the point pushed her until she finally left so she'd be the bad guy... I seriously didn't understand what was wrong with me and dreaded the thought of anyone finding out. But she's making her own improvements, years after I had given up hope of her ever being the woman she is now, complete with a more solid idea of what she wants and how to get it and how to ask for it. I don't really know how or why she did that. I guess she'd say the same about me if she were here.
She wouldn't be brow-beaten, and I didn't try... I just blamed her for problems that I pretended were the result of me giving in to her demands. But she did accept that blame... she apologizes for interrupting me and such even now. Dammit, she probably still carries around some of that blame, and I can't help her without letting her see all my problems and shortcomings, past and present. That scares the hell out of me even now.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
She wouldn't be brow-beaten, and I didn't try... I just blamed her for problems that I pretended were the result of me giving in to her demands. But she did accept that blame... she apologizes for interrupting me and such even now. Dammit, she probably still carries around some of that blame, and I can't help her without letting her see all my problems and shortcomings, past and present. That scares the hell out of me even now.
I say brow-beaten in a tongue-and-cheek kind of way. I'm not one to be brow-beaten, either, but I do give in, after a time, of consistant blame and criticism.
As far as you being scared? Good. Fear is healthy... as long as it does not immobilize you. That is where courage comes in. It is not the absence of fear, but moving forward, doing what you must, in spite of it. Which I whole-heartily believe you can do.
Maybe she stayed this long because she accepted the blame for problems I was causing. Maybe once she lets go of that she'll see that she wasted a hell of a lot of time with me and hate me.
But she does know about my problems, and knew about them in a general way all along, and I didn't hide the fact that I was seeking treatment for them. Maybe she already knows more than she's ever talked about. Or maybe she'll forgive me because I did something about it of my own free will with no threats or inducements from her, even if I'm not 100% normal even today.
Either way, I'll be okay. A lot of regrets, but regrets aren't the end of the world. And I'm way too old to just be starting out on the life I should have been living, but that's not the end of the world either.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
I don't know about that. I see a lot of assumptions there, based on part truth, and part projection. I'd spend more time exploring if you actually have a true and accurate assessment.
The assumption that I am lost might be all wrong. Maybe I am not lost or maybe the R isn’t a lost cause.
I see most of this true to a point BB wants a man that wants to be her dog’s daddy and her protector, Mr. Neat, tidy, and a foot/back/hair rubber. BB wants me to lead, but in her direction of interests.
I am not a possession, filling these roles, because you hired me to do so. I never felt BB was a possession or that she had to do most things a certain way. most things were lazi-faire in the early days if the activities were with-in the budget.. In the last 15 years BB pulled away and became independent and stating women should be their own person, F what men think, most H are not worth having (guess that makes me really a good H ) and sometimes I feel like her employee.
The employee thing is related to me being satisfied with our old things had he wanting new things on a regular basis. She is also set on having lots of pets that require care so when I want to go someplace or do something I have to factor in the pet situation, help her some, scale back my plan, go without her, or just drop the idea. Boat anchor comes to mind as I type this paragraph.
I've agreed to do these things WITH you, not FOR you. That sounds a little independent but normal and doable
My version of that is: I've agreed to do these things WITH you, and those things FOR you because that is part of what I see as the H's role. I have also agreed to do things just because BB wants them done; even though I think they are not practical just because BB likes them done and she cant??? or won't do then herself.
I am free to make choices, and be me, express me, in MY ways, based upon the boundaries we decided TOGETHER. I am OK with that statement. Mt situation is BB decided on some things and to keep the peace, I went along with the idea for a while. My bad I suppose.
But I think people mainly do this in unconscious ways... which leaves the other person open to thinking they can step in and tell you how to do your part of it... That is so true and I bet the most common MO.
... and it leaves the other person in the position of drawing a loving, but firm boundary in telling you... no, I'm my own person first. There are always boundaries within boundaries... And that is what I work with/on today.
We all get the boundary of marriage, but we seldom spend time constructing the boundaries within a marriage. [/b] I know I didn't.[/b] Hay, that is the way most couples operate when in love. I know I never spent time construction boundaries till too much water went over the riverbank and some flooding damage was done.
) and sometimes I feel like her employee.