I honestly do not know what his motives are. My very best guess is that discontent in our marriage has led him to just feel flat out resentful and he has allowed it to come up and become such an issue. When I asked him today that very question point blank, he said he SHOULDN'T HAVE been ok with it all these years. I suspect that coupled with the discontent is this feeling that he is too good for me or something. He was always insecure before and now there is a slight possiblity that he could be on a series on Discovery Channel through his work. They were featured on Dirty Jobs, so he has met Mike Rowe, etc. There has been talk of a reality series for years now. Up and down. One minute it's gonna happen and they're going to be the next "West Coast Choppers" (or whatever that show is called), the next minute it all falls through. It seems like at times when he "gets strong" because of positive stuff going on in his life (or even the potential for it) he starts getting really cold and resentful towards me. I don't think it's even conscious, but I do think it's partly related.
Here's where I'm coming from. I have tried NOT to elicit help from my girlfriends, because their advice often sounds the same and the general message is that I'm being a bit of a fool.
Here's what my girlfriends have had to say: (and they are not dramatic, head-shakin, finger-wavin' girlfriends. They are intelligent, rational, caring women who have known us for years and have a variety of experiences personally to draw from. I fully respect every one of them and their "advice" always sounds eerily similar.)
J wrote: Something that has been weighing on my mind lately is I had a chance to read your postings on Sunday that you linked to me and I was deeply saddened to hear what a horrible time you are going through. I read the ENTIRE thing (a few hours but I did it) and If you ever just need to talk please know that I am here for you. I even have a place for you and your kids to stay if you should ever need to. I have to be honest with you because I would like to give you my thoughts on a subject that you were comfortable enough to share with me. YOU ARE DOING NOTHING WRONG. I am very angry at Joey for treating you the way he is. I am not going to bash him and I truly want your marriage to work but I have to say it, the problem lies with him. Although I am proud that he is “trying” now the impression I got was you were in a “bipolar relationship”. When things were good, Joey was giving you the emotional connection that you so desperately were trying to get from him. When things were bad it was because he had the audacity to throw things in your face from a time when, quite frankly, you weren’t even exclusively dating. Did it hurt him? I’m sure it did in 1994 and sure it may bother him now but to constantly grind the same old sausage is ridiculous and self destructive. It also seemed to me he was dangling it in front of your face like a carrot any emotional connection you were craving. He’s not stupid, he knew that is what you wanted from him and he was withholding it to get what he wanted from you (and you and I both know what that is). That certainly is not the way to get it by quilting you into it. As for emailing Pam, that was done when you were in a marriage. Your “dating” someone else in 1994 was not behind his back, you were broken up. If anybody should be to blame for hurtful actions, it should be him (not you). It also sounded like he was baiting you to end the marriage. He kept saying to you “so, are you saying you want to end it because it sounds like you do” when in fact you were only trying to make things work. It sounded like he wanted you to cave and be the “bad guy” for ending the marriage when he was doing everything possible to make you miserable enough so you would make “the call” and he could turn around and throw it in your face for hurting him “once again”. It’s called reverse psychology and an outsider reading it can clearly see what is happening. Joey should be PROUD to have you for his wife and if he can’t act like a decent husband, he doesn’t deserve you!! Nobody said marriage was easy, but it also shouldn’t be that hard either. Keep up with the counseling if you can. I know money is really tight for you but it will hopefully save things in the long run. I am afraid you are heading down a path that won’t end happily. Most importantly, think of your 2 great kids. What damage is being done to them by constantly seeing this fighting? Mari is at an age where she will pick up on things like this. How sad will it be if she grows up thinking that this is how all marriages are L.
Again, I want you to call me if you need to talk. If you are sitting in a Kinko’s parking lot and just need somebody to vent to, you know my number.
Lots of Love and Hugs, J ________________________
C wrote: I think this is a really funny argument because breaking up with someone is by it's nature one sided. Nobody gets to have a say in the matter when they get dumped, otherwise it would be a mutual split. The thing is, if you two did decide to break up-- he could go out and sleep with someone else. But if he decided afterwards that he made a mistake, you have every bit of freewill to tell him to screw off, you don't appreciate it, you don't want to take him back. But if you take him back, you can't wait 10-15 years and then start making his life a living hell. Either you take him back or you don't.
I hate to seem like a pessimist about this situation, and if you read this and want to tell me to [censored] off, you may. But I don't think that Joey is going to come around as long as you are letting him act like this. If the therapist has sat down with him alone and tried to plead your case to no avail, he is going to need a strong kick is the ass to wake up. I think that as long as you are being nice and trying to appease him and apologize for what you did, he is winning this bizarre battle of wills. I think the only thing that is going to impact him is stand up to him and let him know that it's is over. If he wants to continue to stew about it, then he can do it somewhere else. It isn't healthy for you (eventually you are going to be worn in to dust if you keep accepting the way he is treating you, and you aren't going to realize it until you are so depressed that you can't get out of bed in the morning) and it isn't good for your kids to see their parents treating each other this way-- you don't want them growing up thinking this is they way two people who love each other should act. I promise, I am not saying this because I think you need to do something. If you ever do act on this, you have to do it in your own time. But you are one of my closest friends and I am worried about you. it seems like the situation has gone from uncomfortable to unbearable and I really don't want you to get hurt. Joey is lashing out in ways that are incredibly destructive, and I don't want you and the kids getting torn apart by it. you have been with him for a long time, and it is intimidating to think about being separated, but how much are you willing to put up with in order to avoid that?
We are having a little get together with my parents tonight for H's and D's birthday and we would love it if you and the kids wanted to come and join us. There is no need to bring anything-- seriously save the birthday presents for her party-- and H is going to make dinner and my mom is bringing cupcakes. D would be so excited to have Mari over. We got her Dora's fairy castle for her birthday, they would have fun playing with that. if you are interested in coming over, we would love to have you. (don't worry, I ran it by H and my mom and they both said they thought that would be fun). Let me know.
Also, if you think my advise is crap, that is ok. You are the only one who can gauge how bad things are. I only hear what you tell me. I really won't be offended if you disregard it and never want to talk about it. I will also always be here if you need help or a shoulder to lean on. I know how hard it is when things are just not going your way.
Oh, and we are both on Zoloft. He recommended *I* start taking it in February, right after he met Pam. He had already been taking it and it helps him. I would say it helps me too. I was having a hard time with patience with my kids, etc. I don't want to be that way.
Well, what are YOU thinking? Would you be ready to do something drastic at this point? I guess that's the bottom line -- are you at the point yet where it's either work this out or get out?
I got back on my Lexapro also. Same thing -- hard time w/ patience, etc. I know I also had a hard time dealing w/ the boys when things were so bad w/ my H.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
No, I don't want to leave. I just want things to be normal - the way I THOUGHT they were before he dropped the bomb. We have our problems, but the current stuff seems manageable, esp with the counseling we are getting. It's this old stuff that I can NEVER even come CLOSE to "winning" on. He is so stuck on it. And so irrationally hateful about it. I know it was a big deal in its time, but I feel 1992 is in the past now and I'm tired of it haunting my every move here in 2007.
I'm really not looking forward to him coming home now. I am trying to decide if it'll make things better or worse if I go to my girlfriend's tonight.
Don 't leave the house and go to your girlfriends. Like I have said before to you, I think you should exclude them from your dealings with your husband. You are simply feeding his insecurities.
You also need to listen to what he has to say. Again, advice for you to put him in his place is not good advice.
He is on the cusp of a decision, and he is very seriously considering leaving you. I am surprised that he hasn't engaged in an all out affair yet.
He is obviously still hurt about the past, and is questioning his decision to marry you. That isn't some wayward fogged out mind at work, his pain is very real to him.
Let me ask you a question. It would really help if you would be brutally honest. Before you were married, how much time passed between you announcing you were broken up and you having sex with someone else? Was the break clean?
Whether you realize it or not, he is feeling trapped into the marriage, by his own nature that caused him to fight to win you back, and then marry you.
What are you doing to demonstrate to him, your level of commitment to him?
Hint; discussing your issues with others bothers him, he has said as much. That contributes to his lack of trust. Going to your girlfriends to avoid a fight with him, shows you are not committed to him.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
No, the break was never clean. We were always the "on again/off again" couple and it was up and down almost from the start. (a blissful beginning, but after that...)
It WAS BAD of me. It was "like" cheating. I didn't cheat, but almost. I seem to remember that he went on a trip for a week and hung out with two guy friends while he was gone (Joe & Charles). They were so much fun and we drank and hung out and had a great time. NO funny business, but Joey was very possessive and when he came back the [censored] hit the fan. I tried to tell him about how much fun we had and he didn't take it very well. (I can understand now, but didn't then.) I felt controlled and pulled away more. As was usual for us, we got in a huge fight and broke up. I started to like Charles. We did end up getting together, but I honestly DO NOT remember how much time passed. I would say a couple weeks? And no, it was not a clean break, because Joey was so hurt, I think he was still initiating contact. I truly cannot remember though. We were completely apart for about 3 months. The Joe in the above scenario (the friend, not the guy I dated), is the one who is marrying my best friend in Vegas on 7-7-07. He is the one who was going to bring my best friend here for our son's baby shower and Joey flipped out not wanting him in our house (or even in our front yard.) He has since TOTALLY relaxed about Joe and shook his hand, allowed me to visit them, etc. without making him the center of the problems. I appreciate that SO much because I will always stand by my best friend and don't know what I would do if he forbid me to see her. The day that he shook Joe's hand when all of us were expecting a big dramatic event, I was instantly ATTRACTED to him and jumped his bones that night to "silently" show him my appreciation. (It was suggested by someone to verbally tell him how much I appreciate his acceptance of their relationship and his place in my friend's life and I plan to do that, but I've been trying to not stir the pot anymore than it already is.)
THank you very much for the advice. I appreciate it and I'm listening.
I truly can't remember all the details and chronology of everything. He says that that is one of the most offensive hurtful things of all.
One thing the counselor said to me in our last session is that it seems Joey is always trying to get me to prove he is top priority with me. She said it seems that he could give me a million tests and I could pass with flying colors and he'd give me another test.
zuzu wrote: "He has since TOTALLY relaxed about Joe and shook his hand, allowed me to visit them, etc. without making him the center of the problems"
Obviously, hubby has the capacity to change.
So, what do you think you can do to demonstrate your commitment to hubby on an ongoing basis?
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
One thing the counselor said to me in our last session is that it seems Joey is always trying to get me to prove he is top priority with me. She said it seems that he could give me a million tests and I could pass with flying colors and he'd give me another test.
Sorry that last post was taking forever to submit, so it finally popped up after you posted.
I don't know. I thought I was doing it, but it seems endless, this raking me through the mud, all of a sudden (I know, it was after a session where his emotions were dredged up, but it was not based on my actions.)
I came a long way in showing him that I DESIRE him and I try to show appreciation for all that he does as a father and provider.
