I'm just too lazy to fill them all in on my backstory! LOL I have wished I could somehow magically just do a "brain dump," and have them all get my sitch, and then start getting advice.
Apologies if my words came across the wrong way. I do agree that what this guy is doing is wrong. I guess just having been there myself making the same mistakes, I can see reasons why people would do things that don't have anything to do with maliciousness and thus I perhaps have a little too much sympathy. But this guy may be more of a blackfoot OM, I don't know. You know a lot more about him than I do.
And I agree, the years of neglect (despite all the comments that we guys have been engaging in unattractive behavior) followed by the apparent ease in which she has fallen into an R with OM has to be very painful for you. I am very sorry this has all happened, and I applaud the amazing strength you have shown in navigating these difficult seas.
The accidental OM text message forward thing was absolutely hilarious. Glad I wasn't drinking coffee at the time.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
No need to apologize. And don't get me wrong -- I'm sure that SHE would tell you all of the things that you said, but I'm just crying "b.s." on all of it with her. In fact, during our big fight on Saturday, she said, when confronted by me once again about the affair, "This isn't about that, I've been unhappy for a long long time, you KNOW that."
To which I calmly said "Well, no, wife, I WOULDN'T know that, because you never had the decence to TELL me you were unhappy, and regardless, it doesn't give you the right to have an affair and hurt me and our family this way."
It's definitely very strained. My communications with the wayward Mrs. Choc. have been perfunctory, at best, lately, as we work out necessary logistics for the kids' day and such. Even on mundane, everyday "light" convos, I've noticed that she will sit in silence and NEVER INITIATE A SINGLE ONE, only responding with short answers if I initiate one. This makes me very sad, to not even have her say things in the car like "Oh look, there's a new shopping center going in," or "Did you see what that car just did?" or even something about ther weather. I mean she initiates NOTHING, and just sits there, nervously fidgeting, clutching her cellphone, putting it in her purse, taking it back out, putting lotion on her hands and such. She's a nervous wreck.
And when we have had the few R convos, they are ugly, although I've done a pretty good job at remaining calm. She REFUSED to talk about the affair, or allow others to, and to have it be part of the conversation about possibly ending our marriage. She is in total denial, and total addiction mode.
It's sad, and hurtful, but I am remarkably doing OK, with the help of NOP, all of you, my God and my family.
Just keep it up about the A. It is the primary, but not sole, reason for this current mess. If she doesn't admit that she's just in denial. A good marriage counselor would probably tell her that in order for things to be worked on she has to at least not be in another relationship. Stay strong for the kids and have some fun with them.
As for the wife, just go about your day and invite her or not as your feelings guide you. Don't go out of your way to communicate with her. You don't even need to repeat about the A, she's heard you as is evidenced by her paranoid behaviour.
I would, however, keep going to the gym. If you have a membership you have a right to use the facilities. I'd probably be just a little vindictive myself and do it during the wimpmeister's time...and look him in the eye every time. No other contact is necessary.
I still feel compelled to jump in on your sitch. I completely understand your position and how you feel. But I think you are drawing too hard a line in the sand and on your present course, I think you will seal the divorce. I cannot see what she can do at this point to “win.” You have her boxed into a corner with no way out. She has been shamed and humiliated and the only thing for her to do is run harder. You are escalating to an unhealthy point. Before you needed to exert power to restore balance, but now that balance is tipping the other way.
In fact, during our big fight on Saturday, she said, when confronted by me once again about the affair, "This isn't about that, I've been unhappy for a long long time, you KNOW that."
To which I calmly said "Well, no, wife, I WOULDN'T know that, because you never had the decence to TELL me you were unhappy, and regardless, it doesn't give you the right to have an affair and hurt me and our family this way."
So what is the point of your comment? It is true that she has not stepped up to the plate and acted as an adult, but then again, you had a role to play in that too. You reply is ignoring her complaint. Perhaps she did not say anything before because she was afraid she would get this very type of response from you? A woman who is not happy is a woman who is not heard and validated. She is giving you an opening line, testing if you will hear her and you attacked. Not good. No way for her to win, save face, build hope.
The issue for her right now is not about being right or wrong. She knows she is wrong, but still she does not care, she continues to fantasize about the OM, in spite of exposing her affair to the world. Have you asked yourself why that is? Why is it more important for her to endure this shame in order to keep up contact? In part I think it is the endorphin “high,” but I don’t think that is really what is driving her. At one point it was denial, running from her issues and her past, including her past with you.
Now it has become an ego thing, a fight for identity, a power struggle. The harder you fight her and put down boundaries, that she feels are only meant to force her to submit, the harder she must pursue the OM to retaliate against you. That is her only weapon right now. IMO, the only way for her to relent is for you to relent. That means YOU have to be able to hold onto yourself enough to trust her to come back to you. That means you have to put the same blind faith into her to love you that you are asking her to put into you.
I’ve mentioned before on this board that I think it is very important to understand yourself and your partner fully to be able to heal a marriage. Then you must understand how the relationship dynamic play out in your M and how the various recovery approaches act on this dynamics. One approach may be good at one point in time, but a completely different approach may be need later. Being the tough guy, the alpha male, setting hard boundaries, taking the moral high road, are all fine and good at one point of recovery, but now that you’ve got her attention and taught her that you will enforce your values and beliefs, I think it is time to change tactics to give her a hand in directing this recovery. If you push too hard, like I think you are beginning to do, you will come across as a bully and she will see no reason to even try.
Whether her fantasy future with this OM is realistic or not, it does not matter if she sees no possibility of a future with you. That future has to include letting her feel empowered, in control and confident of herself, knowing that you respect her. The OM is letting her feel this. What are you doing to make her feel that she will be better off with you instead, and I don’t mean having a home, the family, a nice car, etc. I mean how will she be better off with you to become her own person? This OM needs her more than she needs him. So she is really empowered when she is with him. What are you going to offer her?
Don’t you see that you and the kids hold the cards to empower and respect her more than this OM ever can? But you aren’t taking that approach, are you? Taking a “militaristic” approach and shaming her only works to a limited extent (and only for certain personality types), by showing her there is pain if she crosses “the line.” But the other half of setting a boundary is for her to experience pleasure, admiration, fulfillment by staying within “the line.” Those positive things can come from you. Just putting forth the model of a good husband will not be enough at this point. She is convinced there are plenty of other men who can be a good H. What will make her choose you over them?
I respect your opinion, and appreciate your thorough post and your interest in my sitch. But the techniques I'm using, while contrarian to some, have been used successfully by tens of thousands of people to recover their marriages. Killing the affair, by whatever means necessary including confrontation and exposure, MUST be done first, and "ZERO CONTACT" with OM established, before the marriage can even BEGIN to enter the rebuilding stage.
She is an addict. She is addicted to OM. She cannot "manage" this affair, and like an alcoholic that goes into a bar and thinks he can have "just one or two drinks," she is on a destructive path that unfortunately is destroying not just herself, but me and her children as well.
All I am doing is reminding her of that fact, and being here as a safe path back to the marriage. She knows where I stand on the things that I'm willing to do in the way of allowing her to be independent, etc., if and when she chooses to end the affair.
I disagree somewhat. In Mrs. Choc's case she will have to come to grips with the shame of her actions herself. It's not Choc's job to ease her guilt. If anything is going to have a chance to be rebuilt she'll have to come to grips with her wrong, and then prove to Choc that she's trustworthy.
That doesn't mean he shouldn't show compassion and love or hold it over her head. HE doesn't have anything to prove, she does. If she never recognises how wrong she is in giving something she was witholding from her mate then he's probably better off without her anyway.
