Yes, I spoke to Frank last night. He suggested that I post on her immediately. I will post my old links.
One more thing that I was thinking about. D3 and I were at the store a few weeks ago. My phone rings and I answer it, I talked for a few minutes and then hung up. D3 starts talking in a weird voice as though she is nervous. She was asking me, "Who is on your phone?" I didn't respond. She kept asking me and I thought this was odd. I got down on my knee and asked what she wanted to know. She replied, who were you talking to right now, a boy or a girl. I responded, who wants to know. She said, momma. I told her that she is not in trouble and I changed the subject and said, let's get some ice cream. She was happy.
OneWish's Story
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
My just told me that she is done because I ‘abandoned’ her and D3. My W was willing to go to counseling and church to help work on the marriage when I was leaving the house. I know I should have NEVER left. I was just reacting emotionally being all upset because she was calling my family and trying to make me look bad. I had a job that wasn’t working out because I was still in school and working another job on the side that my employer didn’t know about. This was affecting my work performance and I sat down with my employer and told him that I had a lot going on and that it just seems like this job is not working out. We both agreed and my employer asked me to stay with the company for another 6 weeks so that he could find a replacement and I can train the new person. I agreed. I told my wife and she was understanding and encouraged me to keep looking for work. My wife then calls my sister and mom and tells them that I was fired and I didn’t want anyone to know. She told them that I am selfish and always golfing with my father instead of waking up in the morning with them. My wife complained that I didn’t do more things with my D3 like I was when we separated.
Quote:
“You once again had secret relationships with other women, you were keeping secrets from me (Going to lunch and girl at work asking about how my weekend was. I told my wife about this and she was upset initially. I told her that I have no interest in her, she has 4 kids and 2 foster kids. My wife then responded that I need to keep work relationships at work and nothing else. I assured her of this). You were still golfing every Sat & Sunday, you were choosing to go to sporting events with your friends. you were pissed when i went to your work, you packed your suitcase and left us! Out of the blue you were accusing me of doing things with other people during our separation, you have never been a jealous person, which only means that the old saying the accuser is usually feeling guilty about something and trying to find some way to make himself feel better. BUT guess what? It doesn't work on me anymore...you used to be able to mess with my head, hurt my heart and make me doubt myself more than I doubted you....not anymore.
I am trying to leave on good terms, but you always try to play this victim role when you are only a victim when it comes to your own behaviors and actions.
Stop trying to send me the old emails when I was interested in trying.
This was sent to me March 26.
OneWish's Story
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
When OneWish and I spoke last night I kept hearing the same 'themes' from her that I heard before but didn't register with me.
- She breaks things, has huge tantrums when she is upset. Last time she went right for the divorce and filed pretty quickly too. It's like she HAS to find a way to control a man. By fear and intimidation. - She is incredibly insecure. Previously she had just gone through his e-mail, now she's searching the car and having her brother look at the computer? WTF? - She is codependent in her attachment to her daughter. My W's Brother's XW was the same way. In his case she exhibited psychotic behavior whenever the kids went with him for visitation. - She seems to always find things 'wrong' with OneWish. - They ONLY hang around her family or her friends. OneWish has attempted to make friends with another couple but she 'doesn't like them' and doesn't want to even try to get to know them. She seems to fear change, strangers and not being in control.
I agree that having any kind of one-on-one thing with any woman, like the lunch he had, is simply not going to work in his relationship. It should be a group or not at all. Bad move.
Leaving the house and moving out. Bad idea because it diminishes you as a man in her eyes, which are already eyes showing lot's of disrespect.
Allowing the searches of the car, the cell phone, etc. - I would have allowed it once, and maybe even encouraged it. BUT then I would have said "now that you see I'm only interested in YOU, we will not do this again." She needs to respect him.
I also suggested that when she says that she misses their D3 so much when she isn't with her, I would respond with "I understand. I would prefer we stay together and we work on BOTH of our issues so we can be a family but you've decided that isn't going to happen, so this is the result."
In fact, I suggested that WHENEVER she whines about anything that 'sucks' he always let her know that he agrees with her, he prefers that this not be the case, and that this is the result of her choices." I think that she has been able to manipulate him with guilt and threats.
Also, in my opinion the several months or reconciliation were months where HE put in the effort, and she benefited. It seems like none of her core issues were addressed - he just basically "toed the line" and she was happy again.
She didn't have to take responsibility for her contributions towards breaking the relationship.
As far as the Circus, I said they SHOULD go, put D3 between them and have fun, be excited for HER sake. Afterwards, take them home or whatever ad do not linger unless it's to spend time with D3. Let W have a nice time and see what she is throwing away.
W is also 'telling' him how visitation will work. When he tells her he wants more she says 'too bad'. My response is that he needs to look at the situation, come up with a plan that suits him and takes her needs into account and give it to her in written form. Don't debate it with her, just tell her to review and if she has feed back to respond IN WRITING.
I believe that his attempts at not creating conflict are feeding her need to control him. He's giving up time with his D3 in order to avoid an argument? This needs to end. It only leads to more disrespect. I'm not saying be belligerent or or confrontational. Only to be sure that you aren't giving up things that will be harder to reclaim later. Remember, giving her 'control' is 'power' to her and she relishes it.
OneWish also signed some kind of document related to her buying a house on her own. He did it to be accommodating to her. BUT he couldn't tell me WHAT it was for. I suggested that he NOT sign ANYTHING ever again without knowing what it is exactly and sitting on it for at least 24 hours. No matter what.
I believe that OneWish could 'DB' his way back into this relationship if he 'got in line' again. However, I believe that it will just repeat itself again. I think that now is the time to simply put up no resistance to her 'I want a divorce' and let her deal with the consequences of her decisions. Go 'gray', make a REAL visitation agreement that does NOT give her whatever she wants. When responding to her whining, be very clear that this is not what YOU want, but what SHE is making happen.
I think there is no 'getting back together' until she decides to face her OWN stuff, or even admit she HAS problems.
Lovingly detach, with a pinch of tough love seems like the best course right now.
- She breaks things, has huge tantrums when she is upset. Last time she went right for the divorce and filed pretty quickly too. It's like she HAS to find a way to control a man. By fear and intimidation. - She is incredibly insecure. Previously she had just gone through his e-mail, now she's searching the car and having her brother look at the computer? WTF? - She is codependent in her attachment to her daughter. My W's Brother's XW was the same way. In his case she exhibited psychotic behavior whenever the kids went with him for visitation. - She seems to always find things 'wrong' with OneWish. - They ONLY hang around her family or her friends. OneWish has attempted to make friends with another couple but she 'doesn't like them' and doesn't want to even try to get to know them. She seems to fear change, strangers and not being in control.
Thanks Frank. She does go off and exhibit these behaviors and is quick to blame me for everything. I do admit, that I have made mistakes to upset her. She would get upset and hit below the belt and try to say things to hurt me. When we were together, in January, I believe, she brought up that she will divorce me. I was pissed and responded that I really don’t care and that a D wasn’t going to scare me. She quickly ceased any talk of it. She did tell me that she doesn’t want a separation or D to ever be brought up or considered. She said that she loves me and wants us to always work things out. She said that she was miserable being without D3 and that she could not stand being without her. She said that if something ever happened to D3, she would not want to live any more. She did tell me that in the past, when we were dating that she had thoughts of suicide. She stated that she did tell her mom this because her mom was trying to talk her out of a D last year. She was trying to convince her mom that I was making her miserable. I always tried to tell her that we are responsible for our own actions. If she breaks something, that is on her. I didn’t make her do anything. She chose to do that.
With regards to her searching through my e-mails. She may still have copies of the old e-mail from my female friend at school to help fuel her anger towards me. To continue to blame me for everything. That is the past, we got through that with Retrouvaille and she agreed to leave the past in the past as suggested at Retrouvaille. She agreed to start all over and re-build our relationship. However, she struggled with this by throwing things in my face about how the counselor agreed with her that it will take time to trust. The counselor said this and that.
I have to admit that I was going through some sort of depression cycle. As some of you know, my cousin was killed in Iraq, April 2006. He came back home in February 2006 and wanted to see me. But I was depressed and not in the mood to leave the state. We did communicate a lot through the e-mail and then I found out that he was killed. I had so much guilt for not seeing him. After I got back with my W, I would sit there on the computer and just read about him and cry. My W would comfort me. The after going through 6 months of heartache I wasn’t feeling like myself. My life had changed so much. I got rid of all of my friends and I was cautious about everything that I did. I didn’t want to upset my W. In February 2007, I started to get angry for everything that I went through and my W apologized for filing and said that she loved me and we will never go through this again. Basically, my self-esteem was VERY low and I felt like I could not do anything right. I would always hear about what I didn’t do right. I would express myself only to hear her tell me how she sees things. I just wanted an ear, not a solution.
Frank you are right. She does fear strangers. When I told her that I worked with my friend’s wife, she was afraid, asking where does she sit, do you two communicate, etc. She then finally met her and she didn’t say much. My W was bowling with my friend and I and didn’t say much to his W. My W has a HUGE family and she is close to her sister-in-laws and mom. She always told me that she gave up her friends and wants me to do the same thing.
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I also suggested that when she says that she misses their D3 so much when she isn't with her, I would respond with "I understand. I would prefer we stay together and we work on BOTH of our issues so we can be a family but you've decided that isn't going to happen, so this is the result."
Good Point Frank. I will state this every opportunity that I have.
Quote:
In fact, I suggested that WHENEVER she whines about anything that 'sucks' he always let her know that he agrees with her, he prefers that this not be the case, and that this is the result of her choices." I think that she has been able to manipulate him with guilt and threats.
Frank!
You hit the POINT with that comment. She is a Master at making me feel guilty and manipulating me. She blames me for everything. This caused me to feel so bad for where we are. This caused me to feel worthless. She doesn't take any blame for anything. When I upset her, she always wanted an apology. I would apologize. When she upset me I would ask for an apology and she would refuse and be stubborn.
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Also, in my opinion the several months or reconciliation were months where HE put in the effort, and she benefited. It seems like none of her core issues were addressed - he just basically "toed the line" and she was happy again.
This is true. I put in so much effort in counseling, the board, and trying different things with her only to be rejected. She didn’t see any role in our issues. She always said they were my issues. She made it a point to tell me that she was never this way until she met me. She said that I made her like this.
OneWish's Story
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
I just called to talk to D3 for today. My W told D3 to not hang up because she wanted to talk to me. W gets on the phone and asked if she could have D3 on Saturday because she is going to a family party. She was hoping that I would take D3 on Friday so that she could take her to the party on Saturday. It is not a kid’s party, it is just a get together with an older friend of the family. I told her that I will have to check my schedule. I told my W that the circus is on Sunday and that we will need to figure out how we are going to do this. I am going to suggest that I pick them up and drop them off. It is too hot outside (Going to be 112 on Sunday) to be looking for each other. I am considering telling her that I have plans for us on Saturday just to throw a curve in her schedule and create some plans. What do you think? I am suppose to pick up D3 tomorrow and we are suppose to discuss this. I just need to start making statements about what we are going to do and take control of the situation. I can’t continue to take the same approach, of what do you think.
OneWish's Story
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
I spoke with my counselor today and he gave me some good basic advice. He asked me if I sincerely apologized. I did say that I was sorry while I was crying when I found out that she didn't want to work on the marriage. I came across sorry and probably not convincingly to my W, I assume now looking back on the statement.
My counselor said that I should look my wife into her eyes and firmly state that I apologize for leaving her, lying to her, and not making her feel secure with my actions. Tell her that I have learned from my mistakes and no matter what she decides to do, I will never do this again. He suggested that I stand up tall, look her in the eye and mean my apology from the bottom of my heart and most importantly be strong. Don't be whiney. He suggested that I apologize out of the blue. I know that I am going to feel nervous doing this. I am going to do this tomorrow if the timing is right and then just leave immediately.
He said that I have to apologize without any expectations. He said to not explain why I did what I did because that is the past. I can't change or justify my behaviors. Just tell her that I made a poor decision and that it won't happen again. He said that I need to stand up for myself and it is unacceptable for her to be searching through my phone because that is not a healthy relationship.
He suggested that I go to the circus with my W and D3 and have the best time ever. He said that I NEED to be happy and silly. He made a good point. He asked me what it means that my W filed. I told him that she doesn't want me, she doesn't love me, she doesn't trust me, she is done with me. He quickly stopped me and said, it doesn't mean anything. So what if she filed. He said that I am making up all of the reasons why she filed and none of it is true. I am creating the reasons!
I know in the past, my W asked me for a confessional letter asking about everything that I did in my past. Then we went to Retrouvaille and I opened up to her a lot about my plans and hopes for the future and she responded well. I wonder if I should apologize and then write her a letter about how the future will be different and what I will do to ensure that it is going to be promising. I know that my W needs help too. We have to start some where.
OneWish's Story
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
