I have to agree w/ LFL. It's very hard staying in an M when you know your spouse has cheated on you and said and done things that really hurt. Then when confronted w/ those things he said, my H said 'well, it is just the truth.' You then have to figure out what YOU can live with and what you can't. I know they say 'believe only 1/2 of what they say,' however, that's easier said than done. It's not even just the 'believing' part, it's the forgetting part. Forgiving is an ongoing process, but forgetting is really hard. Then there is the trust issue, which is a very hard process to deal w/ as well.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
No M is easy. That is for sure. It's all in how you manage the problems. Can you forgive? Should you? I truly believe this is personal choice. As Crazy Eddie was saying, some people react differently. I'm still trying to figure out my own sitch so don't have any real words of wisdom. But I do know that the M evolves over time, just like the two people in it. It's impossible not to. The biggest problem comes I think when one person fights that evolution. They expect things to be the way it was at the beginning or whatever. It just can't be. But how much hurt and disrespect should one person have do bare? Again, we make our own choices. No one is forcing me, you, Choco, or anyone to stay in their M. Or our S's for that matter. The kids are the only one's at our mercy. I guess I try and keep that in mind when feeling sh!tty, like today. LFL
I'd be more prone to losing my love from the years of extreme neglect, myself.
Combine the two, and it'd be a slam dunk. Having your cake and eating it too is one thing... I'd most likely be willing to forgive that. (I think... it hasn't happened to me yet, so I can't say with certainty) But to spend years indignantly refusing to share any cake at all with me and offering excuse after excuse as to why she's unable to bake, and then go on a baking frenzy and still refuse to share any cake with me while bringing every last morsel to someone else, that strikes me as one of the ultimate in dealbreakers.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
You are correct, I am taking some risk by deciding to live with her for now. I risk losing my love for her, at least what's left of it, as I witness her sad, meanspirited and pathetic behavior. I do not lose self-respect, however, because I am on a very clear plan, with very clear reasons for doing what I'm doing, and I've CHOSEN this plan, for MY good and the good of my kids, as being the one with the best likelihood of success. She may THINK she's "getting the last laugh," or that I'm being a doormat, I don't know -- I can't control what she thinks. I think she's seen me boundary-setting enough to know that I'm no doormat, but I still think she thinks I'm going to fall apart if she leaves me, and the truth is that I'm getting stronger and better with that idea every day that goes by.
I have several, intertwined goals here. Improve Choc, be a better child of God, dad/husband (if she'll let me)/son/sibling/person. That's #1. Try to save my marriage, using a proven plan that, while not GUARANTEED, has had great success with other marriages when applied properly. That's #2. And #3, lead my wife away from this destructive path she is on, and back toward God, regardless of whether or not that's being married to me or not.
So, knowing that I have those purposes in mind, and knowing that I have chosen the Plan (with the help of NOP, prayer, and support of my family) to help me accomplish those purposes, then I'm OK with the day-to-day. It hurts like hell at times, yes, but at other times -- more and more each day -- I'm able to detach from it, and look at it as simply the predictable "script" of two infidels, and not take too personally what the brain chemicals are doing to my wife's head.
I'd be more prone to losing my love from the years of extreme neglect, myself.
Combine the two, and it'd be a slam dunk. Having your cake and eating it too is one thing... I'd most likely be willing to forgive that. (I think... it hasn't happened to me yet, so I can't say with certainty) But to spend years indignantly refusing to share any cake at all with me and offering excuse after excuse as to why she's unable to bake, and then go on a baking frenzy and still refuse to share any cake with me while bringing every last morsel to someone else, that strikes me as one of the ultimate in dealbreakers.
Eddie, this is EXACTLY what I have the most trouble with. This is not just a once-recently-great marriage that's been temporary derailed by an affair. This is a marriage that for MOST of its 22 years, did VERY LITTLE to meet my most primary needs, emotionally and physically. I have 3x more hesitation and doubt about that than I do with my ability to heal and overcome the affair.
For now, I've determined that I can see enough things done wrong, by me and Mrs. Choc., that there's a chance of good success if we can get back together and try to do things better and differently, so I press on. That patience and forgiveness, though, will not last forever, and I have told my wife this.
Sadly, she rushes away from me faster and more determined than ever. God help us.
I think you handled her confrontation perfect. : ) I think you are doing great. One day she will regret her mistake.
One thing really confuses me though. She sure seems like a very sexual woman to be typing something like that to a man. Also to be researching how to satisfy a man. I am just curious if maybe she could just prefer a more agressive kind of man. Not trying to upset you at all. This could be good to figure out if things work out in your marriage again. It just sounds like maybe she prefers a very take charge kind of man. Or should I say an agressive man. I know you have said many times she just likes to feel SEX-Y. But now have any actual sex. This doesn't seem to be true maybe. Maybe she likes to play a little hard to get. But in the end she wants the man to say lay down I am taking you now woman.
Also Choc I am sure she has gone through a HUGE ray of emotions with such life altering changes. Like plastic surgery and then becomming independent and working. I know you have said you haven't cared for a long time. You haven't brought up sex and it has been nonexistent in your marriage for a long time. But for a woman who was changing in so many ways and growing and feeling better about herself and to have her husband show no concern I am sure had to hurt. She may have wondered many times while getting so sexy why you weren't all over her? Why you didn't want to kiss or see that new belly of hers. I know you were protecting your heart. But just from one woman's point of view this can be so hurtful.
Hanging my head in shame. But Choc my husband is a lot like this. Acts like he doesn't care about things. Or avoids confrontations. I have to admit I love the attention I get from other men. It is the only thing that makes me feel desired and sexy. Because my husband doesn't give me what I need. It is only flirting. But I realize lately that I flirt myself. I have NEVER taken it to another level at all. I don't think I could bring myself to ever have a physical affair. My morals would get in the way. With the recent troubles with my marriage I have realized I am a lot at fault about things to. I also think I need to be honest with him about me flirting. Or maybe it would make it worse to tell him how I am feeling. Because then he feels like less of a man. See like your wife I find it hard to talk about things. It makes my stomach turn anymore. Then things just keep getting worse and you keep growing further apart.
I have watched that video. It's excellent, and disburbing all at the same time. The effects that an affair has on the betrayed spouse are simply overwhelming. I've tried so hard to "not look at my wound" (as one poster on another message board put it) that I have tried not to think much about things like that. But when I heard his words, I realized the depth of the devastation that had ripped open my chest.
Even during the "don'tgiveashitness" of the past 3 years, I still would occasionally flirt with my wife, and I very often told her how hot she looked. I asked her during all of this, when she said "I didn't think you wanted me anymore," I asked "how could you NOT think I did, when I said all of these things to you?" And she said "I just thought you were being nice."
People, I DAMNED NEAR HAD TO TRIP HER ON HER WAY PAST ME IN THE HALLWAY OR THE KITCHEN, to literally STEP IN FRONT OF HER, to get her to give me a hug or a kiss. I asked her about that, too, and she just said "I don't know why I do that -- I'm sorry."
No, she has intimacy issues, BIG TIME, and I STILL think she does, even with this guy (hence the lack of confidence and having to do the Google searches), and she's just not facing her issues. She knows that Choc. is going to hold a mirror up to her and make her deal with her own chit, whereas OM just flatters her and lusts after her unconditionally.
Flattery, flattery, flattery, with no accountability, and no consequences. Hell, who WOULDN'T want that???
No, I'm not buying it, Trying. My wife went from 20 years of frigidity to being a promiscuous little sl_t, without me so much as having the benefit of any of the transition.
Choc, I wondered just a little how the video would affect you, but had you pegged about right.
One thing I wished the video covered is how most men react to cheating. I thought it mostly was geared toward women.
I like Marriage Builder's web site. I would like to see more support for men.
When A new guy posts, the first thing he gets, "You need to help your W more, pay more attention to her needs and heaven forbid the H does some "love busters."
I think it tales about a month, or at least a couple of weeks for some guys to get some real help, other than comments he has to do more if he wants his love line met.
Of course, a H with your problems will rank high on helpful advice and support from the forum posters.
