Oh, honey, your thread got so thoroughly hijacked... Well, that's what happens when you post a question, and then don't show up for a few days... we go right on gabbing without you.
Okay, in all seriousness... if I were you... I'd start reading up on workaholics. Like I said, your H reminds me a lot of my xH. If he is working 12 to 15 hour days, consistently... there is something, below the surface, driving that behavior. I've worked long days like that, and I can tell you, I needed way more than a paycheck to motivate me to do so... to work those kind of hours, more than once or twice a day a month?!
I also think he could be using sex to relieve stress, and it is an addictive loop type of behavior. It sounds to me as if he is almost using sex as a 'pacifier' type action... and believe me, I spent quite a bit of time discussing this with my shrink (as my xH did the exact same thing).
Look into understanding the 'workaholic.' They don't call it 'workaholic' for nothing.
I can see things from your POV and it is a realy tough situation. The problem is how tochange things if your H is unwilling to accept that there even is a problem.
It doesn't sound like he's happy the way things are as he's mean and grouchy on his days off. It could be that he feels he's missing out on no longer being free hence the AFF post. He's always been HD and now that you are understandably tired from having young children he may well feel that he isn't getting enough attention. If he's always been a jealous person he may well be jealous of the loss of his time with you because of the kids.
I know its hard to change things around but honestly you should try to have alone time with no kids at least once a week. Get a babysitter dress nice for him and try to remember howto have fun as a couple again. You need time for yourself too even a couple of hours a week to recharge your batteries. Its easy to put the kids first and forget how important the husband wife relationship is too.
Re the toys if he's using them because he hopes you get more pleasure and its having the opposite effect could you maybe hide them and initiate yourself in such a way that he'll forget all about toys?
It sounds as if he does most of the initiating and while you may not refuse there's a big difference between you making the first move and he may be resenting you not doing any initiating.
I know how hard it is when you feel unappreciated he probably feels the same way as you. He works hard and feels you don't take his tiredness into consideration. Its the inability to communicate properly.
You can change you first and hopefully when that happens he will change too.
I know exactly where you are at. My H showed very similar behaviour when our kids were small. It sucks. Both of you are feeling worn to a shred and both are feeling unappreciated.
I am going to give you some quick fire advice so please don't be put off by the tone, I'm at work and I have to be quick. Here are some things to do:
1) Try and ramp up your appreciation levels towards him, when you start doing that you might start to feel some of it coming back to you. A good time to give positive vibes is post-sex. He will be feeling relaxed and less grumpy and take your compliments at face value. My H used to even take compliments the wrong way. Like I would say "I really appreciate how hard you work for us" and he would take that to mean "You better not stop".
2) You MUST get some childcare/babysitting, this is important for your sanity. I don't know how the finances go in your house, but we have always had a system of joint finances with little separate accounts to use as an allowance. When I was SAHM I used some of my "allowance money" to pay for a cleaner.
3) You MUST talk to him, shout at him, slam doors at him whatever it takes until you start getting through to him that neither of you has it easy right now, neither of you is the one working hard while the other one has a good time. You're in this together, it's a tough period in any couple's lives and if you both pull together you'll get through it - if you don't you won't.
4) Babysteps, tell him if he comes home early and puts the kids to bed for you he'll get sex, if he doesn't he won't. On the nights he does this, make yourself scarce, go to the gym or if you're too tired for that have a sauna or a massage or get your nails done - whatever. Come back when the kids are tucked up and initiate sex. You have to get out of the house otherwise you will just use the time to do chores or end up getting roped in when the kids kick up a fuss.
Make sure it is a total Action/Reward loop so he knows if he does the action he gets the reward - no ifs or buts. On those days keep him excited by sending him sexy little text messages with things like "looking forward to tonight...." etc. This helps keep him focused on getting his work out the way and fulfilling his side of the bargain.
5) Try and think of something else that you would prefer to the sex toys but is still a little kinky. One thing my ex-BF used to like was if we spread out porn magazines on the bed and I would lick the pictures like I was giving head to the girls. He found that really hot - and it was super-easy for me to do. He also liked toys and stuff, but I didn't. I said things like I preferred his hot throbbing c0ck to those pieces of plastic. In other words I talked really dirty about what HIS body meant to me and made the toys seem like garbage.
So when you have worked out something kinky to do make sure you are set up and ready, when he gets the toys out, say to him you've thought of something better.
And keep posting here, we're here to help and as you've already found out the board is pretty responsive so it's a great place to hang out when you need support.
take care
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Thank you so much for your words. And Corri, I do think he is a workaholic. There is no doubt.But Also, I know that he wants to get this new business thriving and he just is asking me for 6 more months to do that. Its just hard.
Yes its very easy to "forget" our relationship because of the kids. I am a devoted mother and I love spending time with the kids, but I know we need adult time.
I think I am an understanding person and I do except a lot of stuff that goes on here, but everyone has a limit to what they can take at a certain point.
We are going away for the first time in 5 years on Saturday to a rush concert. My mom is staying with the kids over night so I hope this will be good for us because I really don't know if he truly wants to be with me anymore or if its just a "job".
Thanks...
tal
me: 37 H: 44 Married for 18 years this june S7 S3 porn issues, and much more... since 7/06
Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.
You are a lucky man in a far better situation then I am. As you say, your wife is affectionate OUTSIDE the bedroom. Thats the whole point!! My wife is NEVER affectionate, ANYWHERE. As was liad out in chapter one, LD women often become completely unaffectionate outside the bedroom. THe problem I have is not the sex, it is how the LACK of DESIRE for sex has screwed up EVERYTHING in our relationship. No kissing, very little sex, noi affection. nothing. They are all closly related, if you don't see yourself as a sexual person, you may struggle with ALL of these things, like my wife does.
In your case, you may get rejected and a day or two later you have sex. She also initates sex. She is PHYISCALLY showing you desire, and part of the reason is because she actually HAS some what of sex drive, she is still in touch with her physcial needs. My wife is NONE of this.
You are a lucky man, I would love to be in YOUR position. My wife has a million miles to go before she even pulls even with fearless. My point is that you are getting everything that I want becasue fearless still has a sex drive (even if it might be low). My wife has NO sex drive, and that fact has screwed up EVERYTHING about our relationship. She just no longer sees herself as a physical person. Marriage now is about being "friends", as she puts it, people don't stay lovers forever.
My guess is she would say the exact same thing about you Cemar. A man who desires his W does not have your attitude. It's that simple really. Really. LFL
I am not sure I followed all that. How would you say that fits in terms of the HD women on here. I would be totally happy with most of the HD women on here. So if they are tops, then I guess I would like a top.
Quote:
My point is -Why do you care at what exact point in a sexual encounter your wife becomes aroused or desirous? If she is willing to engage in activities you enjoy and she is happy with her level of arousal and satisfaction, why wouldn't that be enough?
Because this does not fill my primary need. If my primary need was sex, this would work. But there is no such need. THe needs is "Complete Sexual Fulfillment". This means sex between two people that BOTH desire sex. As the book says, willingness to have sex is not good enough in the long run. As the workbook that goes with it says, "The return of Desire is necessary for the marriage to succeed". The kind of ses that you are talking about is essentially glorified masturbation. Heck, often after I give my wife head and she orgasams, she then says, OK, lets take care of you. Bestill my freaking heart. I get to use her to masturbate.
Can I ask you, would you spend the rest of your life with a man that NEVER pursued you, NEVER showed physical desire for you spntaneously? And if you answer NO, then why would any man be happy under similar circumstances. I don't understand why we are asking men to do without REAL desire will most women get to bathe in it.
I'm new here but someone mentioned Deida so I thought I would respond.
Cemar:
Why are you basing your happiness upon the reaction you receive from your wife? I see you have mentioned Deida, from this I assume that you agree with his writings. If so, then you know you need to stop wasting time trying to get your wife to love you in the way you think that you need loved. Even if she somehow accomplished this, this making you feel desired, your needs would change in the future and she would again fail to meet the new standard. You need to find your purpose in this life Cemar and get on with it. I think that is what Deida would tell you.
To me, I'm new here but I have read a few of you posts Cemar, you are trying to derive your self-worth from how aggressively your wife pursues or responds to sex. Simply put, this is a fool’s errand. Your wife isn't going to become hot for you simply because you want her to be.
Dieda did say that if your wife doesn't desire you that you should leave. You got that point. But, what you're missing is he said that if you unabashedly find your purpose in life and pursue it at your full potential, if you find your edge and lean past it, if you are living authentically and with fullness in the moment, then and only then, if your wife doesn't desire you he advises you to leave. Are you really pursing your purpose Cemar? Are you spending every waking minute that you can get giving the world your gift? Do you spend most waking moments creatively developing this gift so that you are at your full potential? If so, and your wife still doesn’t desire you then I think that, perhaps she never will and you are with the wrong woman. There isn’t anything wrong with her, you just chose poorly when you decided to make her your wife, she isn’t right for you.
Do you really think that your wife should desire you no matter how you are living your life Cemar?
