I'm back... I posted quite a few times about a year ago - then I took some time off because my sex drive dropped and my wife increased so things seemed okay.
Now, I am in a really weird situation. I was so frustrated last night that I only got an hour or so of sleep. My wife also slept like crap.
I'll try to make this brief and get to the point, but it will be hard without doing some history.
We're married 20 years with two kids. I have suffered through 15 years of hearing my wife say no. I want sex 1-2 times week and we average once a month. She is not interested in anything exotic. The last two times we had sex I was barely in the mood. She sat me down and had a "talk" with me about my poor performance. ((you have to understand this is a complete 180 of where we were a year ago)). If I had mentioned last year anything unsatisfactory about her sexual performance it would have started a day long arguement. Now, all of a sudden she thinks sex is important and I'm called to the matt for a lecture.
Fast forward to present frustration.
I arrived home this weekend after a week out of town. I was looking forward to some welcome home sex. She seemed receptive. Then, one thing led to the other and the night got real late. She does not like me messing with her when it's late at night and she is tired. So, I lay there in bed beside her deciding if I'm going to do something or not. She has a grocery list of "things she hates" when it comes to sex... here are a few...
- don't ask me if you can do something - don't assume you can do something - don't grope - don't touch me like a teenage, be a man - don't ask me when the sun is shining - don't ask me when it's too late and I'm tired - don't whine - don't pout - don't talk about it - don't share your fantasies with me, I'm not interested - don't keep a list of rules
[ also, from time to time, these rules don't apply... but, you never know when ]
So, as such... I just lay there going through a checklist - okay, I want to have sex, but I can't ask... I can't just jump on her, it's kinda late, I don't want to fight... it gets me literally paralized and I have gone to sleep many nights not asking just because I can't come up with some plan of attack.
Then it hits me... I know, I'll say "you know, I thought about you every night while I was gone" - I say this as I'm snuggling up to her... her response is "yeah, I know..."
Would have been nice if she had said something similiar or said "that's sweet" - so, I mark this as a negative... but, she seems to be moving toward me and she says something about not being fully in the mood (though she does not use those exact words)
Next, I put my foot in my mouth and say "is there anything I can do to get you in the mood" (remember rules above, she hates it when I ASK her)
So, her response is "-1 point"
of course now that I remember, we had been playing with this "-1 point" think a week or so ago when we irritated each other (in a playful way) - however, this kinda made me think WTF?!?
So, I got for the MAN approach and pull her close and grab her butt in a firm strong manly fashion...
This gets another negative response. So, I give up and roll over. But, for some reason I know she really wants to have sex... she just wants me to do it exactly the way she wants and needs it without her telling me anything. She feels like if she tells me anything she is making it EASY for me and that is a bad thing.
So, I start lightly stroking her face and she starts responding positively, then I roll over to start kissing on her and she says "you need to floss your teeth"
She's right, I do... so, I tell her I'll jump and do it - she says no. get back in bed. and she just lays there. Now, I'm as self-conscious as can be. I did brush and use mouth wash, but it has faded fast and my tongue taste bad and I just can't go back over to her and do anything because I feel like Mr. Stinky breath. I tell her again that I'm going to get up quick and do a quick clean-up and she says no again. So, we're at a stalemate.
She tells me she really wishes I would take care of my mouth and have "sexy breath"
Well, that's where my advances end. We end up laying there staring at the ceiling till we finally fall asleep.
In the morning we have a "discussion" where she tells me again how troubled our sex life is. Now she has convinced herself that the last 15 years of trouble has had nothing to do with her at all - it's been all me. So, now it's up to me to fix it all.
I'm just so confused.
On the positive side, she is very interested in getting our sex life fixed and on track - this is GREAT she hasn't had this motivation in years.
On the negative side, she is convinced the entire problem rests with ME and if I would just fix myself we would be having this wonderful sex life.
So, now I have decided to do a major overhaul on my hygiene (I wan't too bad before, but definately not squeaky clean [something that turns her on]). So, I went and bought face wash, a sonic toothbrush and a tongue cleaner (I think that is where all the odor and bad taste comes from).
I would like to initiate something again tonight (after I'm cleaner) but, I am still licking wounds from my failure last night and feeling rather bitter at her "it's all YOU" approach.
My goodness! First of all--you ARE a man, you just need to start acting like one. You are letting your wife control FAR too much of what you think, how you act, what you don't think, what you don't do....I can feel from your post that all you want to do is make her happy. That is really sweet. It's too bad your wife doesn't seem to see that. From where I sit, I don't see where she has much respect for you and she treats you accordingly. You need to learn to respect yourself and live for you-her respect will either come or it won't. But at least you can look in the mirror and see the man you ARE, the man you want to be. I think you need to take the focus off of the R and the sex life for now and rediscover who you are and what you like. You are half of the marriage my friend, stop letting her squash you.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
When you can say, and mean wholeheartedly, two simple words, her mindset will likely change.
The two words are "your loss".
Getting into the mindset where you can mean those two words is a large part of the battle. But you have to really believe that she is missing out on something good and it's unfortunate for her, but you've got better things to do than cajole her into letting you show her a good time.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
Oh yeah, and if you want to get up and floss, get up and floss. She doesn't want you to do anything in that bed right then and there, so why is she so insistent on you staying there?
She's not your mother. She doesn't want to be your mother. Don't try to make her into your mother and then try to have sex with her. If you do, she'll think you're one pathetic motherf*cker. If she's barking orders like that, she thinks you need her to be your mother, and if you follow those orders or sullenly resent and resist them, she'll consider herself proven right. Get out of that mindset, and let those orders bounce off of you, consider them amusing and play with them, slap them down manfully (not sullenly or whiningly), don't meekly follow them.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
let those orders bounce off of you, consider them amusing and play with them, slap them down manfully (not sullenly or whiningly), don't meekly follow them.
I couldn't agree more.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Now if she tells you to do something that turns out to be the best course of action, there are two good responses that I have found:
1. Thank you. Say "thanks for the reminder" if you had intended to do it but forgot, or "thanks, that's a good idea" if it hadn't occured to you previously. Basically, you're treating her words as advice, not orders. You don't take orders from her, but you're happy to listen to and profit from her advice. This mainly works if she is speaking in a civilized tone.
2. Now I can't do it. This is for the times when she speaks to you in a vicious or belittling tone. Tell her in your own words that you would like to do exactly what she was telling you to do, but now that she gave you such a disrespectful order, your own self-respect forbids you to follow it. Then say nothing else to her, and do something else quietly and calmly. This is a good time to catch up on your reading. Don't expect her to respond to your words as a cool-headed, respectful person would... the words are for her to remember and reflect on later. Let some time go by, then if you still feel it necessary, follow her advice (NOT order) and thank her for her advice as in (1) when she is calmer and more respectful.
All of this should be done calmly and respectfully, in a spirit of cooperation with her as equal partners.
a fine and enviable madness, this delusion that all questions have answers, and nothing is beyond the reach of a strong left arm.
It's a common mistake. Man thinks I want sex, if I'm nice to wife I will get sex.
But it doesn't quite work that way. Women want security that is a basic biological need, they need a tough man to stand up to the world and defend them and their children (even if they haven't got any). And a man that is too easily bossed around doesn't fit that bill. This is why women continually attempt to boss men, they are testing to see if the man is tough enough to out tough them. The man needs to put the woman back in her box, but to do it with humour and love. A sense of knowing he's the one who's really in charge and that he finds her cheekiness quite amusing.
The whole floss/don't floss thing was an example of her testing you (btw women don't do this consciously they are hard-wired that way and most are unaware). She wanted you to do it, but she didn't want you to just obey her. Clean breath = sexy, submissive man = not sexy. It's a conundrum That's why you need to take Eddie's advice (who by the way isn't in the slightest bit crazy). Listen to what she wants but in a way that flips it round so YOU are the one in charge. Here are a few possible answers to her desire not to smell your funky breath.
a) OK, well I'll kiss you somewhere where you can't smell my breath b) I'll go floss, you put that sexy black basque on and when I come back you better be ready for me c) Go into the bathroom, floss, MB, come back in with a huge boner and say "Come here woman, I'm taking you to heaven tonight!"
The main thing to remember is to act like YOU have got what she wants not the other way around.
take care
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
all good advice - thanks. Wife had a tremendous headache last night (not faking - ha ha) and went to bed early so I didn't have to decide whether or not I was going to try anything. Just checked the calendar and we are 6 weeks since last ML so that explains why I'm so intent. We usually ML every two weeks though it can swing from one a week (if everything is going great) to once a month (if things are haywire). So, six weeks is definitely a stresser on both of us.
My thought is that though the whole scoring thing might sound horrible, perhaps it is all she can do in terms of communicating her sexual desires. I know with XH I could not talk about sex, AT ALL, though I was VERY unhappy with our SL. The point system almost sounds like a strategy from a C as a way for her to start to share information. So, maybe if you can keep it playful it will be good thing and evolve into more substantive communication.
Oh, and one more thing. Have you ever tried tying her up? She wants something that she can't ask for and get. She wants something that if you ask her if it is OK, she can't get. This sounds to me like she would like a little gentle domination, consensual, but not explicitly so.
as for the point thing - at first it offended me, then I remember that on a recent road trip I had started it. I can't remember how it began, maybe we saw something on TV or a game or something - and I looked at her and lipped the words while doing hand gestures "you, minus one..." we went back and forth with it the whole weekend when someone did something "stupid" - that is the only time we ever did this, it's not some secret code we've used for years... or something she has ever done when we are intimate.
As for the tying up thing - we did that our first year together and it was okay... nothing major dom... I asked her about a year ago if she would like to trying it again and she said she "was not in a trusting state in our relationship and it would have to wait"
