Is this a book that one can due solo? I have read several christain books, but in many cases that talk about what BOTH spouses responsibilities are. Those are not going to work for me since I don't have a willing particiapant in my wife. Does this book essentially say to set your boundries and then divorce if they don't want to follow them? What is the consequence that should be applied if boundries are not followed?
1) Is it for your wife to DESIRE you or is it for your wife to DESIRE sex with you? For me and possibly for other women my desire for my partner includes but is NOT LIMITED to sex. I may look at and DESIRE touching or cuddling with him, I may look at him and think I am the luckiest woman in the world because I have such a great man, I may DESIRE having him as my partner for the rest of my life, etc. However I, and I won't speak for any other women, can DESIRE my man without wanting to have sex with him (at least not at that very moment).
2) And speaking of this, if I desire and appreciate my man for all his incredible qualities and desire him for my partner/husband, then is it okay for me to not have sex with him ??? (For me the answer is no but I do wonder what you think???)
3) If you turn a man down for sex, that is rejection. This is one area where we actually DO completely disagree. It is only rejection because of perception based on your possible insecurities or state of mind. Also you didn't even read my posts here completely because I said if I don't feel up for sex one night, then the next day we start with a clean slate and my partner OR I may initiate. Also I DID initiate and was turned down occasionally by my XH thoughout our relationship and marriage. Sure it kind of sucked but I didn't let it be a personal rejection of me BECAUSE IT WASN'T INTENDED THAT WAY.
4) So according to you the WOMAN HAS to be empathetic first. HMMMM so even though her needs are unmet and she is tired, dealing with personal issues or physical issues, etc., it is HER responsibility to give you what you want??? Maybe HD men should recognize that a woman's emotional state is crucial to her DESIRE. Actually this is NOT my opinion but I don't like the way you phrased your demands of your wife or other LD women. Bottomline I think once you've sunk and stayed at the point where each of you are entrenched in DEFENDING your own personal issues, you are in a tough place for EITHER party to have true empathy. At some point a person has to be able to "lose" in order to win.
5) I need to be honest with you Cemar. When I read your posts, I find your attitude to be extremely needy, insecure, demanding, selfish, petty, weak, etc. I am not sure if you are really this way in life but I think you deserve to know that it comes across that way TO ME here. I would be extremely turned off by a man who would personalize so greatly the fact that sometimes I feel so exhausted that ML does not seem enjoyable, desireable or fun (and I WANT to enjoy sex and desire my partner). OTOH, I am a woman who does not personalize if my partner forgets something I told him in one of my long rambling talks:) I also don't mind if he is so busy he forgets to buy me a bday gift. I also understand if he needs some time to himself to unwind after a stressful day. Why would I personalize behavior that may not have ANYTHING to do with ME or my partner's feelings about me?? Granted we would need to talk if somehow I was missing things regularly that were necessary for me to know I was loved but I wouldn't look for every slight to have a HUGE meaning.
6) And to repeat, I firmly believe that sex and desire should be part of a good and healthy marriage. I just happen to believe that it is normal if there are times where it takes a backburner to the necessities of life.
7) CAC4, if you are out there, how can we explain George's attraction to women that HATE him? if a man is supposed to want a woman who desires him, then that makes no sense.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Cemar, Seeing as I am "THE MAN" in this case, I thought I might offer my 2 cents.
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2) Men don't need sex from women, Men need DESIRE from their wives, which can't really happen WITHOUT sex. Again, this can ONLY come from a LOVER, which his wife is supposed to be.
I don't agree with this. I feel very desired by fearless. She showers me with complements, tells me how much she admires me as a man and as a father, tells me how hot I am, carresses me, hugs me, etc. How little would we need to be having sex for me not to believe this is desire? I know she desires me because she tells me and shows me outside of the bedroom. If for some reason (living in the real world) we were not having sex very often but she is still exhibits the above behaviors, should I discount these and assume she no longer desires me?
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Also, I noticed that you said if he trys the next day, you will allow it to happen. This is another form of rejection. If EVERY SINGLE time the initiator is the MAN, he will get wise to this and will start resenting you for not pursuing him. Most couples when dating, the WOMAN actually INITATES on many occasions. This is ALSO a huge rejection of the man. Women who really DESIRE their men initiate with them on occasion.
There is no problem here. Fearless does plenty of initiating. Also, I don't take it personally. Fearless is rejecting the act of sex: NOT ME! She is tired, ill, whatever. It doesn't matter. I know it is not about me it is about the act. Her actions outside the bedroom show that to me and I believe her. When she turns down sex (not me) I... wait for it...ACT AS IF it is about the act and not me. Neither one of us is hurt, insulted, etc. and either one of us can freely initiate the next time without and baggage.
I'm sorry Cemar, but I just believe that communication and understanding go an awfully long way. I had to learn it the hard way. I had a WAW. I hope it does not come down to that for you. I hope you or your wife do not end up a WA.
Raven
Last edited by DERaven; 06/25/0708:18 PM.
I am the man who is loving my kids and will keep them from continuing this cycle of destruction.
Is this a book that one can due solo? I have read several christain books, but in many cases that talk about what BOTH spouses responsibilities are. Those are not going to work for me since I don't have a willing particiapant in my wife. Does this book essentially say to set your boundries and then divorce if they don't want to follow them? What is the consequence that should be applied if boundries are not followed?
I suppose you are going to have to check out the book yourself... and if there is any way whatsoever for you to blame your wife for not being able to do anything that the book suggests, I'm sure you will find it.
As far as any consequences to be applied if the boundaries are not followed... I'm tired of doing the work FOR you, CeMar. I was trying to help you. But because of your constant crabbiness, your insenant bad mood, your unwillingness to help yourself, even the tiniest bit, I am not attracted to the idea, nor desirerous of the idea, of trying to help you any further. As a matter of fact, my CeMar empathy factor, right now, is completely used up.
I don't blame your wife in the least. I wouldn't have sex with you, either, and I even KNOW how to turn my LDness around on my own.
And simply due to the fact that you have been single-handily able to bring those LD feelings roaring back for me today, I have been willing to examine them... and I will tell you... I'm sure your wife isn't having the kind of sex with you that you want, because there is absolutely nothing in it FOR HER.
Technique-wise, you may be the best lover on the planet, but what you inspire a woman to feel emotionally shuts down any inspiration or desire she may physcially have to want to share with you. The fact that your wife goes ahead and has sex with you AT ALL tells me she does in fact love and honor at least her part of the VOWS, and her end of the R. I mean, if you are giving her orgasms? She's doing it for you... not for herself. I'm sure she could go quite a long time (months, if not years) without physcially needing another one... and that is because, like I said, there isn't anything in it for her.
I'll even go you one further... the way your wife could very well be looking at it is... you can give her an orgasm. So what. I can give myself an orgasm as easily as you could give me an orgasm... so could she. And if all I am getting out of the deal is an orgams... quite frankly, I'd rather give it to myself. It's faster, it's probably more intense, and there is no one arguing with me or glaring at me. I scratch my own itch and move on with my life.
Because my bf and I spend a great deal of time apart... I will scratch my own itch... but I would MUCH PREFER to be with him sexually, and have him scratch ALL my itches, any I can think of or dream of... for what I get from our sexual encounters, I cannot provide for myself. Can't even come close.
ok sooooo As far as money issues go.. Im not a money spender... I don't spend money, only if its clothes or something for the kids. I don't buy myself anything. I've never been like that. Even before kids came into play, but I also worked then also at a regular job.Sometimes I do think he puts the pressure on himself, knowone else. He spends all our money on the business, which I understand he has to put back for us to go forward, I'm not materialistic, I don't need new clothes, or get my nails done, or any of that. He spends tons more money than I, but it is on the business, but he has to have the best of the best, that is one of his problems.
And Yes I do understand he is physically tired (he's a spray foam contractor) But sometimes having all the money in the world does nothing if you don't have time to spend with your family.
As far as the sex thing goes, yes I NEED that closeness, no toys or anything just him and I, and he doesn't give that to me. and yes sometimes I feel like its mechanical and I get nothing out of it because of this. I tell him but it just doesn't register.
I could not divorce him, unless he did something that couldn't be taken back, but we do have things to work on to make our relationship stronger, because Im pretty much feeling alone right now.
There is really knowone to talk to about this, except you guys and girls.
If you are to know anything about me, know that I am Loyal to the death, in friendships and my marriage. I will fight for you and defend you and be there for you till the end. I wouldn't never hurt you unless I was hurt first, and not intentionally. I don't look at other men or think about other men, just my two sweet little boys and my ONE big Boy. That's why I think I get hurt because I expect other people to be like that and they just aren't my h included.
me: 37 H: 44 Married for 18 years this june S7 S3 porn issues, and much more... since 7/06
Happiness can be found, even in the darkest of times, if one only remembers to turn on the light.
If you are "object oriented" you are able to be turned on by "objectifying" your sexual partner. There is a negative connotation associated with the phrase "sex object" but all that is really going on is that you are being sexually aroused due to stimulation to a certain part of the brain due to, usually, visual images. Men are generally more object-oriented than women because that's just how their brains work. Most women most of the time aren't as object -oriented. They need more context. I am pretty high drive but I am not sexually aroused by looking at pictures of penises. During my brief foray into the world of AFF, I chatted a bit with one of the headless penis guys (just curious). His pictures were quite impressive but they did not turn me on at all UNTIL he started typing some fairly intelligent sexy stuff at me and then it was like the penis actually had a personality attached to it and looking at the picture did start to turn me on because I started thinking about what the penis might "Do" to "Me"(then he ruined it by using the phrase "glistening jewel" -Blech!. If you're going to go around being a headless penis guy you really need to do a little better than that.) Anyway, my point is that I think you are expecting your wife to be too much like a man in her sexuality. She is not going to love your penis or even appreciate it or even treat it very well if you don't offer her a context in which she can. Also, there's no universal rule for what kind of context a woman might find sexy. For instance, there are probably some women who read Danielle Steel novels who would be turned on by the phrase "glistening jewel".
I use the word "top" in a rather wanton manner to prove whatever point I happen to be endorsing at the moment. What I meant when I used it in the post I addressed to you is that it seems to me that you want to be sexual with a woman whose sexual behavior is assertive and being driven by her own arousal but I doubt that you would know what was really driving such behavior. A woman can be sexually assertive even if she is not at all aroused. A woman can be very aroused and not at all sexually assertive. There is a kind of feedback loop at times but not necessarily. It's very cool to me the way that Corri has learned to drive her arousal by being sexually assertive. I have no clue how a man could possibly tell the difference between a woman who is doing that and one who is being sexually assertive because she is aroused. Really it's the same thing except that I'm kind of subconsciously being sexually assertive (seeking out sexual stimulation and connections) in my thoughts which drives my arousal down well worn old trails in my monkey brain. For instance, a long time ago I bought a copy of a popular sex book where you tear out secret envelopes with "His" and "Her" activities. Clearly, most of the "Her" activities were going to involve the woman being sexually assertive or at least not passively responsive. One that I "did" to my 2bx was putting oil on his back and then Mbing by rubbing up and down his back and *ss. To me this seems like a very "top' like activity. I was being driven by my arousal when I did this but I had already taken the actions of buying the book, reading the book, thinking about the activity etc. so I didn't need the activity itself to turn me on. However, I could have gone into the activity "cold" and I doubt that my 2bx would have known the difference. (Of course his response to this activity was to label it "chick stuff" so....)My point is -Why do you care at what exact point in a sexual encounter your wife becomes aroused or desirous? If she is willing to engage in activities you enjoy and she is happy with her level of arousal and satisfaction, why wouldn't that be enough?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
it is about the act and not me. Neither one of us is hurt, insulted, etc. and either one of us can freely initiate the next time without and baggage. 
Thanks DERaven:) Aren't I a lucky woman??!!??