just a quick note. There was an extensive amount of research for a divorce book a few years ago, which (I believe) was titled "The Case Against Divorce". In their research, divorced "couples" were interviewed 2, 5 and 10 years after their divorces, and yielded some interesting results. Here are some random statistics that were current as of when I read the book, about 2 years ago.
I recall that 5 years post divorce, over 75% of divorced men and 60% of women WHO FILED, regretted not working harder on the marriages AND OR filing for D at all. Obviously the LBSers might feel the same.
80% of affairs that lead to "new" marriages, (meaning when the WAS marries the OP) ended in divorce, as opposed to the 50% of first M's. You'd think that with the wisdom of experience the D rate would be lower, but it's just the opposite.
Men are much more likely to leave wives for adultery than women are with their unfaithful H's and similarly, men leave wives with addictions several times more than women leave their addict husbands...I am not saying what that means b/c I simply don't know, but I can think of several possibilities. I wish that friends and family would allow those betrayed, to forgive. Too often the "victim"spouse hears from others that he/she should Not forgive or take "that crap" etc., and pressures a divorce when maybe, maybe, the cheater really is sorry and has learned a lesson or maybe they could have both evolved and reconciled.
Also, People who get married in church's have a 20% lower divorce rate (40% vs 50%) which could reflect more thought in advance, to plan a wedding, rather than eloping suddenly. There are lots of reasons behind all the stats and theories abound.
fwiw/fyi, and one last comment about why there is more hope than you might think, from reading these bb's. First off, if we're here at all, there's trouble. It's Like saying that people in the hospital are all going to die--they are not all going to die, but they are more likely to die than people outside walking around healthy. HOwever, lots of couples who get into trouble, also fix it or work through it Before getting to this place. More people are going to M seminars and getting help for their R's than we know. More books getting read, more going to therapists, etc.
I attended a 50th wedding anniversary with 49 other couples, most of whom had been married over 30 years. For some reason, I got a lot of advice at the party (guess rumors spread fast) In almost every long term marriage, at least one spouse has had to do some serious forgiving. Or so they told me. Made sense.
Hope this helps you understand that no matter why you are here, or how bad it might be, I doubt anyone's M is hurt by being here but many M's are improved by being here. Maybe even if the M ends, the R is better than it would have been, and God knows I would certainly be divorced if it were not for DBing. I am not saying my M is out of the woods yet (are we ever?) but I am saying this helps and so does hope itself. Cynicism versus realism is a fine line. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry you feel attacked. I am not at all trying to excuse or defend H's behavior or OW's behavior. I'm not sure what suggested that I was. Indeed, I suggested H's guilt might explain his behavior. My point is only that it does nothing to help YOU to put your energy there. There is no telling what is going on between them and in the end it doesn't really matter.
As for your thoughts about what is going on with H and OW, I have no idea if what you think is going on or not. It may very well be. Like I said, who knows? You deserve better than to let their antics impinge on your life in terms of worrying about what is going on in their R. It just isn't worth it and doesn't get anywhere.
I was also writing in a general way on this thread because I thought it was a general topic. It is hard to see so much wasted energy dumped into worrying about the Rs between WAHs and OWs.
You are right, I am not trying to attack you. My interest is encouraging people to stop putting energy into people who are hurting the LBSs, rather than putting it into them. In particular, you deserve your attention a lot more than they do!
As much as I hate to bump this thread, I just want to say thank you OT. I am still pretty sensitive sometimes, so thanks for clarifying.
~ Nicola
Life isn't about finding yourself; it's about creating yourself My thread: Trusting God's Plan
To be honest, I do not see any problem with the statistics that you have quoted. You sourced them and that is what I expect when someone comes and throws out numbers. Thank you.
Your hospital analogy is not a good one. By the time people come here, it is generally one working on the marriage and as we know it takes two to tango. This is more like the intensive care unit and more people die there than in the general hospital populations. I was hospitalize twice before the age of 5. I expect a hospital visit soon for a procedure. No biggie unless cancer is found.
Now, you seem to see me as a cynic. When people toss numbers out, I am a huge cynic. I want to know their source. I want to base actions on quantities that are verifiable.
But my message is very simple. Live your life the best you can without worrying who is or is not in your life. Let's face it, if a spouse is in MLC, it could be a 10-year ordeal. Does it make sense for anyone to obsess on that? I think not. Too often, I see people hanging on every single movement their spouse makes. That is not good. I see people still obsessing over spouses who are gone only to have their anger fueled here. So this board can do harm to a person.
I came to this board with the hope of restoring my marriage. It didn't happen in my case. I am not here to take away hope nor do I come to give false hope. I merely come to tell people to be the best they can be (which isn't always easy) and that will do more to allow them to have a successful life than any amount of knowledge of MLC, statistics, or gyrations about God hating divorce. God wants you to take care of yourself and be the best you can be no matter what.
"I merely come to tell people to be the best they can be (which isn't always easy) and that will do more to allow them to have a successful life than any amount of knowledge of MLC, statistics, or gyrations about God hating divorce. God wants you to take care of yourself and be the best you can be no matter what."
I don't know about the religious bits, but I agree whole-heartedly with the message.
The best thing anyone here can do for themselves, their family, their M, is to let go of the focus on the WAS. The WAS is beyond the control of the LBS. The WAS is beyond the knowing of the LBS. In many many ways, things with WASs are not what they seem, nor what people want them to be, nor even what the WAS thinks they are. Many of the secrets of the WASs are beyond the ken to all those involved. The good thing is, this doesn't matter.
Whether the LBS wants to save the M or not, the best path to take is to find a great life for themselves full of joy and happiness independent of the WAS.
The sensitivity is totally normal. It will get easier, really.
Anyway, I did want to say something -- processing your anger and resentment about WAH and OW is also perfectly normal. Wishing they could understand the kind of pain you have felt is normal. It is normal to feel all of this, healthy to work through it.
The important thing is not to get stuck there and rely on the unhappiness of WAS or OW to be a source of your happiness. As I think I said on your thread, I am pretty darn sure YOU WON'T be getting stuck :-)
When you get happy in your own shoes, their happiness won't matter a smidge to whether or not you have a great life. You'll get there soon enough.
I'm not IMP, lol, but I think the point is that the stats in many ways are irrelevant.
It doesn't matter what the chances are, just like it doesn't matter what is going on with WAS and OW. In either case, a focus on stats or a focus on the WAH/OW R are destructive when they become crutches used to hobble along.
The best path, no matter the stats, no matter the quality of the WAH/OW R, is to bloom as an independent person that has an internal source of happiness.
Anyway, I take the importance of any of this stats talk to be the same as what I was saying.
It just doesn't matter! You cannot know how things are in your case! Don't lean on it! Take charge of your own happiness in a form that does not depend on the actions of others.
When I wrote "affair down" I meant the same thing as you, so we're on the same page.
I think they are with people who fit where they are NOW, emotionally. In my case, and many others here, I also think there is an element of feeling superior with the women H choses - almost by his own admission. In some of the cases, it's a feeling of losing control in life that pushes them through this stuff (MLC or not) and seeking things that make them feel better or soothes the raging ego. I have seen, this past year, my H's raging ego (in reality his low self-esteem and self-hate - again by his own admission) come out not only in personal matters, but also at work.
I think you're right, it's a "coupling" with someone who is on the same page as them NOW. And, it most certainly is NOT us. Even I cannot imagine myself on H's page now - how horrific would THAT be??!!
Something my H said when he had a lapse of madness was this "I was with you when I was at a better state in my life, when I was doing really well in life....not now."
So, it IS a reflection of where they are now. Not to say it's bad, just where they are now. So, when most of us LBSs are often baffled with the "huh??? you left ME for THAT?"....this is a perspective to keep in mind. It speaks more to where the WAS is in life.
Also, OT - you're right. Too much time wasted on the OP is really awful. I think back to the days when I obsessed over the OW, only to find that he was onto another...and so on. But, I also realize that I HAD to go through that. Only to come to a place where I can say "OMG - I cannot believe I let mySELF and esteem be questioned by another person." I had to go through that phase to get to where I am - sort of test my esteem and self-worth. My friend recently said it was painful for her to hear me say "do you think he loves her? is she great?" She said that eventually she let me go through it, that awful phase where you see a friend doubt themselves over nothing. She could not stop me, I had to feel low - only to bounce back. But, there is value in going there and bouncing back. I see now that I would not have snapped out of that thinking if I did not inherently have higher self-esteem at my core. I would have stayed there. And that realization is powerful.
Above all, we are human. We are strong, wonderful, talented, beautiful people - but human. We are allowed to hurt and have our time in it. And, OT, while we need time to be in this place, we also need the nudge of folks like you, whether we like it or not, to encourage us out of this place.
However, OT, I don't think your analogy of you and XW in your H's life is appropriate in many of these cases. It's not really the same type of R, nor was it forged in the same time/spirit.
((( Nic ))) I'm sorry that this time is so rough. I know the pain. Most all of us here do. Just focus on who you are now, hang onto that thought, of the woman you are. I tend to think that you need more out of your H than he is even giving his new gf now....and that just ain't gonna happen. You want more out of a man, and he obviously not able to step up. Time to get what you deserve. A good life.
Above all, we are human. We are strong, wonderful, talented, beautiful people - but human. We are allowed to hurt and have our time in it. And, OT, while we need time to be in this place, we also need the nudge of folks like you, whether we like it or not, to encourage us out of this place.
Friggin love you
“Pray as though everything depended on God. Work as though everything depended on you.”
