Great post. Makes sense to me. I might disagree with this in many cases though:
"I think the answer lies in WHY they need an OP to exit a M in the first place. Ideally, you should not. The type of person the OP is in their life...we notice that they "affair down" mostly."
Well, not disagree really. But I think most cases they are affairing with someone operating at their own level. This is definitely usually a few steps below the LBS. So, they affair down from there, but affair at a par with respect to themselves, if that makes sense. They simply really are far behind the LBS in a lot of ways. Maybe that is one reason they feel forced to run in the first place.
In a HUGE majority of these cases the WAS do come to thier senses eventually. However, they have to hope and pray that the LBS DID NOT MOVE ON.
Based on what do you make this statement? I have been coming around for years and most WAS stay gone.
IMP
I have been reading a lot of articles, books and websites other than this one. I have read from both the side of LBS, WAS and OP. I have found that of the three the OP seem the most emotionally damaged and endure a worst roller coaster than anyone. I found in reading that many many many on different sites know and acknowledge it is a dead end relationship and often IF the LBS is willing to take the WAS back then the marriage is reconciled.
I have noticed too that on the DB website many stories do not work out. However, you have to wonder how many people just felt they didn't need it any longer because things started looking better in their M and they decided to stop communicating here in order to work on their marriage.
Rejoice ministries website has many many testimonies of reconciled marriages and they too talk about cases where the LBS does not want the spouse back. My pastor also addressed this in a recent sermon. He said that many do come back but then see or feel their spouse moved on.
I have heard statistics stating that only 1-10% of men actually leave their wives.
I have threads where the WAS regretts not working out with thier spouse and if they had the chance they would.
I did state "eventually" and IF the LBS did not move on. But statistics say that most do come back. Even in MLC as per the Conways.
We have to face the fact that we all do not know what the future holds for people who did appear to "move on." People do divorce and remarry down the line as well.
For me I look for positive stories. They keep me going.
I will acknowledge though I have also read that when the WAS is a woman the chances of reconciliation is less, but its not impossible. Nothing is impossible through God.
Great post. Makes sense to me. I might disagree with this in many cases though:
"I think the answer lies in WHY they need an OP to exit a M in the first place. Ideally, you should not. The type of person the OP is in their life...we notice that they "affair down" mostly."
Well, not disagree really. But I think most cases they are affairing with someone operating at their own level. This is definitely usually a few steps below the LBS. So, they affair down from there, but affair at a par with respect to themselves, if that makes sense. They simply really are far behind the LBS in a lot of ways. Maybe that is one reason they feel forced to run in the first place.
I see this in my sitch big time. However the OW is not at the same level as my H but a bit under so he feels superior to her.
I have no problem with positive stories. And I also believe that if you are going to stand for your marriage, that is what you do.
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I found in reading that many many many on different sits know and acknowledge it is a dead end relationship
With the people I know, I have found the opposite. And I believe you will find that most people don't marry the first person they meet.
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I have heard statistics stating that only 1-10% of men actually leave their wives.
Where?
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Hoever, you have to wonder how many people just felt they didn't need it any longer becasue things started looking better in their M and they decided to stop communicating here in order to work on their marriage.
I know many people who stopped communicating here, and periodically, keep in touch. Know how many are working on their marriage? Zero.
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I have threads where the WAS regretts not working out with thier spouse and if they had the chance they would.
I don't doubt that. Can you show us some?
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My pastor also addressed this in a recent sermon. He said that many do come back but then see or feel their spouse moved on.
NYC has many people, 8.2 million. Of course that many amounts to 2.7% of the entire USA. Many is a meaningless term statistically speaking.
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I did state "eventually" and IF the LBS did not move on. But statistics say that most do come back. Even in MLC as per the Conways.
Again, show me the statistics. Did Conway actually leave? I know he didn't cheat on his wife.
HeartScared, again, I have no problem with having a positive outlook on life. You have mentioned a number of times that the statistics show this or that. Please show the source. I have heavy training in statistics. I am always willing to be shown that I am mistaken.
The real problem is that I have seen far too many people get caught up in their spouse's alledged MLCs and everything they do is based on getting their spouse back rather than living their life.
Since I have been reading these things over the months, it is difficult to locate every single article I have read online I do not bookmark everything. Not all the statistics are the same either due to differences in sample sizes and geographic locations. Plus you have to take into account human nature and what not. Not all articles site actual hard numbers. For that I would have to do the survey myself and hope that every single married and divorced person on the globe responds honestly.
If you are going to cite the numbers, then you have to do the survey. When I have a number to quote, I quote the amount and I post the link. And I just don't take an author at their word. I try to see if the number is credible. That means more than one source. That means an underlying study. I know how it works.
The truth of the matter is simple. The number don't mean anything. I had a counselor ask me this question. How would you think if I told you that 9,999 out of 10,000 marriages with difficulties were saved. I said I would like those odds. He then said what if you were the one. The point is the numbers don't matter in any particular case. What he meant is that the actions one should take should be the same no matter what. You live your life.
HeartScared, I am sorry but I see too much BS tossed around here. No one can possibly know if their marriage can be saved at this point. No one can possibly know how long their spouse will be in MLC and they may only be guessing.
Here are some stats. http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsUS.shtml Likelihood of new marriages ending in divorce in 1997: 43% Percentage of all householders who are unmarried in 2000: 48% Percentage of weddings which are remarriages for at least one partner in 1997: 43% Percentage of first marriages that end in divorce in 1997: 50% Percentage of remarriages that end in divorce in 1997: 60%
The key to life is becoming the person you want to be regardless of who is or is not in your life.
If you choose to stand, then stand. It shouldn't matter of the chances of saving your marriage are 0.01% or 99.99%. It shouldn't matter if the spouse is in MLC or not.
I completely understasnd what your saying which is why I said I would have to do the study myself. From the reading I found some authors say 1%. some 3% some 10%. I do realize that I can not just take the authors word for it but I was just summarizing what I saw overall in my reading.
It is purely my opinion based on what I have read. I am not making anything set in stone which is nearly impossible when dealing with people anyway.
I think I read these articles and books due to my own backround in science. I like to see stats, and am aware of problems within them. I may not be as experienced as you, but I also know a good experiment is one that can be repeated over and over with the same results and that goes for surveys as well. So these figures are hypothesis at best.
I understand completely the need to be our own people and not losing ourselves in wanting our marriages back.
For me though I have been running straight ahead for a long time, I am the person I want to be. So it is my time to reflect and stop for a change. Through four kids and a career as a teacher I travel, and am working on my second Master's degree. I have been running full steam ahead since 1995. My husband has been by my side for most of that time. But sadly he has not accomplished as much although he has been enrolled in school a few times. Even though I supported him he didn't seem to want to continue. He is really smart but he doesn't see himself the same way I do.
Now he is at a point in his life where he is questioning where he is at and he is unhappy and is not sure why. It breaks my heart. I will stand no matter what. I know the pain he endured as a child and teenager and I see the things he continues to deal with from his family's past and present. He is really confused right now and cutting himself off from everyone. Every now and then he talks to me on his own about our marriage and admits he can only point out small issues and he tells me its him. Regardless of how this ends I know I will be ok, but I would like him to feel the peace and happiness that I have. I can't even imagine how it must feel to be him. Yes I do pray that it ends in us staying together.
